Poor Hp/L of BP series engines

Engines, Transmissions & Final Drive questions and answers

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Babalouie
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Re:

Postby Babalouie » Tue May 30, 2006 6:28 pm

bpt4w wrote:aren't the s2000 engines hand built and run on a dyno before being released by honda to be installed in the chassis.


I don't think they do that anymore. At one time, the Type R engines were hand-torqued and the heads were hand ported, but when the Type R began to be exported, all of that moved over to machine-technology. At the time, Honda said that the computer controlled robot head porting thingy was more accurate and could get better results anyway.

I was told by Honda PR that all Hondas are allegedly run for an amount of time on the chassis dyno to bed them in before delivery, but I'm not too sure about that (unless they have 10,000 chassis dynos!)
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Brian
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Postby Brian » Wed May 31, 2006 8:45 am

I went to a Nissan factory near Hiroshima in 1991 and every car that came off the production line went onto a rolling road and had the living crap reved out of it in all gears and was then dríven away.

After that I have always wondered about the break-in period.

Babalouie
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Re:

Postby Babalouie » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:03 pm

Sam_Q wrote:I have had multiple people show 90rwkw from a standard 4age silvertop that has been run on an aftermarket ecu with an intake and exhaust job.

As for weigh it comes down to more than the material, a CA18 1.8L iron block is lighter than a SR20 alloy bock. WOuld be interesting to see if there was a differeence.

I also want to commend people for letting this be a good unbiast thread. I am not too familiar with mazda engines so its interesting for me.


Mine puts out 90rwkw too....with er, cams, hi comp pistons, head shave, and...ecu, intake and exhaust job :)

But they're pretty different motors to drive. A BP has its rev limiter set at 6900rpm and even if you removed that you start to get hydraulic lifter/valve float issues north of 7500. So we just don't have the rpm headroom that you 4AGE guys have to run really big cams, etc.

My brother used to run an MR2 with a red-top 16V 4AGE. With 272 TRD cams it made IIRC 81rwkw, but in comparison the BP does have 260cc more capacity, so there is a lot more torque.
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Babalouie
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Re:

Postby Babalouie » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:20 pm

Sam_Q wrote:whats a mania intake? anyone got a pic?


This is the type most ppl mean...requires relocation of the washer bottle so that you can drill a great big hole for the intake in the firewall :)
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Matty
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Re:

Postby Matty » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:48 am

bam wrote:can someone tell me how many kw we get from 1.6 with mania intake, full system and 14 degree advance??

in my experience, (not Mania intake but v. similar) and on Caulfield Jag's dyno, about 65kW (a stock motor was ~55kW, so call it a 15-18% gain.)

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Postby STV » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:17 pm

Dont be disappointed Bam, its just a number. No number could possibly account for the grin that my 65KW gives me!
might be better to look at a power to weight rather than just the power..
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Brad
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Postby Brad » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:59 pm

Woops, double post
Last edited by Brad on Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brad
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Postby Brad » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:00 pm

I've got little idea about other Jap engines, but I know the Peugeot engines hit well above their weight for many years. The XU9J4 of the 1989 Mi16 had a 1.9l 16v and produced 160hp/119kw in Euro spec, but was detuned to 145hp/108kw when it landed here. For a early-ish engine this was a phenomenon at the time and had nifty 8-2-1 headers, though it did suffer from remarkebly poor torque below 4,000rpm.

This all changed when the XU10J4 of the S2 Mi16 and 306 S16 came out in 1993. The 2l engine pushed 116kw/155hp with 194nm torque in a wide band. The torque was achieved with a dual intake manifold system which swapped around depening on revs and throttle. I had the S16 and it was a really stong engine, though a little flacky on the longevity of the vacume actuators. Notice the heat glue on the left hand actuator :roll:

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What's being missed is that high specific power comes from high revs, while high torque comes from maximising flow efficiency in the rev bands needed, mostly archieved through tricky intake systems not able to flow enough to give good specific power. I believe that the Honda engines are still a compromise, favoring heaps of revs and little torque.

Take the new Renault Clio 182 (2.0l)as an example, Maximum torque 200Nm @ 5250rpm and Maximum power 131kW @ 6500rpm

Compared to the new Honda Integra S (2.0l)
Maximum torque 194Nm @ 7000rpm and Maximum power 154kW @ 7800rpm

Sure, the Honda has more power but a huge revs and that's achieved by pushing the peak torque way up to 7,000rpm. Assuming a flat torque curve it should be pretty close to, if you scale the Honda engine back to 6500rpm it would produce 128kw.

By no means am I discounting the Honda, they are and always have been of recent time a brilliant engineering feet, just that they need revs to creat their huge specific power...as do F1 engines.

At the end of the day though, boosting gives you the best of both worlds though. :mrgreen:
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Curly
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Re:

Postby Curly » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:16 pm

Babalouie wrote:A BP has its rev limiter set at 6900rpm and even if you removed that you start to get hydraulic lifter/valve float issues north of 7500. So we just don't have the rpm headroom that you 4AGE guys have to run really big cams, etc.


Whoa! 6900!?

I'm starting to rethink my B6 to BP conversion plans...

I loved the way my B6 revved, but every time I hopped in my brother's 4AGE rally car, I was amazed at how much harder it revved and kept making good power up there... That's what I want. I know low down torque is great in real world situations, but I love the sound of an engine charging hard towards 8 grand. I sort of had this pipe dream of putting quads on the BP and having a rev monster under the hood...

Maybe the Sr20 conversion isn't such a bad idea?

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rodent
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Re:

Postby rodent » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:19 am

Curly wrote:Maybe the Sr20 conversion isn't such a bad idea?

Do it!! :mrgreen:
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