Track Car Advice Please

[Revolver]

I've introduced myself in the General Chat section: http://www.aus-cartalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=18231

I've now spent a bit of time searching through the forum, trying to get an idea of relevant information. Have also used the search function but as usual I found it difficult to guess the right search terms .

So, those disclaimers out of the way, can I ask some dumb noob questions please?

Before I start those questions, it would probably help if you knew what I'm trying to do, what I think I know so far and what skill level I'm coming from.

My intention is to buy a used MX5 for use as a track car. I have an RX8 for a road car so the 5 won't get dríven on the road much, if at all.

Why the 5? Well, I've always liked them but couldn't justify one as a road car because I've got a couple of kids who would whinge if I tried to put them in the boot of a two seater. I know from driving a few that they are fantastic fun with pin sharp handling. Further, from what I can tell, the 5 is also relatively cheap in base form, is a reliable unit able to cope with track use, has good aftermarket parts availability and, not least, a solid club membership base, ensuring plenty of other cars to benchmark against.

A few of the guys on the RX8 forums were trying to convince me to buy something like a used Elise but frankly I don't want to spend that kind of money and I need to build my skill level before I get into anything with that kind of power/weight. I also suspect that I can begin in a stock(ish) 5 and add power to it progressively as I get better.

I'm not a complete novice but I've got mucho to learn. I've tracked the 8 a few times and have half a clue about racing lines, braking points, etc. I've also done some defensive drive skidpan type courses. I am looking to get some experience and tuition in a car that won't get me into too much trouble (i.e. biased towards handling rather than power).

From what I've read so far it seems to me that a 1.8 powered NA would do the trick. I understand you can pick up a reasonable example for about $12-$14K.

Am I on the right track so far in your opinion? As I will probably wish to mod the car as I get better (and keener) is there anything I should be looking for in the base package? Trips and traps for the young player when buying a stock NA?

All advice much appreciated and apologies if I'm the 100th noob to ask about this kinda stuff.

(Sorry to be so longwinded too but I think it's important to be clear about what I'm trying to do to avoid wasting your time).

[Curly]

I'm not up on the rules nowadays, but it might be a cheaper option to import one from Japan as a race/rally import.

Probably won't be able to register it for road use, but you might be able to pick up a bit of a bargain compared to a locally delivered one.

[Red Baron]

Sorry if I missed it, but what type of track work do you want to do?

And do you want to road register or not?

baron

[KIJIMA]

If I am correct on what the guys are about to elude to, if you are never going to drive the car on the road (which makes it harder to get to the track legally) then I somthing like a jap import would be the go. I looked at doing this myself not long ago, but I would have to have it reg'd for road use for me to rationally own a 2nd MX5, and that simply isnt possible with what I was looking at. Im not sure if this will confuse the issue futher, but you might want to have a look at these.

http://mx5.jp/stock/index.html

Just having a quick look at this one with alot of mods already done for you maybe a great way to save $$$ and have a very quick track car. Considering that its a 98' NA 1.8 with a six speed, turbo and a heap of goodies and @ 900,000.00 JPY = $10,460.54 AUD It seems to be a bargain.
http://mx5.jp/stock/e277_98_MAZDA_Roadster_turbo/index.html
Or for $4,500 AUD plus usual costs of importing you would end up with a nice NA 1.8 with tupperware and other assorted goodies.

[Revolver]

Thanks for your responses guys.

At this stage I'm just looking to improve my car handling skills and enjoy a fun car in a safe and legal fashion. Accordingly, timed indivdual laps and some tuition is what I'm looking to do. Depending on whether I'm keen enough once I improve, I might look at doing some sprint racing down the track (pardon the pun).

For those reasons, I want to start off with a clean stock car rather than a heavily modded one. I understand buying a car that's already modded can save you some $$$ but I want to learn how the stock car performs and handles before I start playing with it. However, I'm all ears as to mods that improve the durability of the stock car for track work (as distinct from pure performance mods, like turbo's, etc).

As I don't envisage driving the car on the road, I thought I might save the cost of rego and insurance. I also thought it might make it easier to fit semi-slicks, strip it of unnecessary weight later and do performance mods (again, if I get keen enough to do so) if I don't need to worry about road compliance.

As for getting it to the track - I also own a Ford station wagon which would serve for a tow vehicle. So it's just a matter of getting a trailer.

However, please tell me if you think I've got it arse about. Some of you have no doubt gone down this road before. Perhaps I'm better to get a road registered stock car, save the cost of a trailer and only take it off the road for good if I get keen enough to mod it heavily, etc. Opinions please?

I wasn't aware of the self-import option (other than generally being aware that you can import a car yourself if you wish). The cost differential mentioned by Kijima certainly sounds tempting. I thought I'd be looking at $10K plus for sure, just for a stock car. What are the usual costs of importing? Out of interest, what is it about the Japanese imports that makes them unregisterable?

Going back to the pros and cons mentioned above, if I save enough by importing and don't need to register or insure it, the downside of getting a trailer, etc is starting to look more worthwhile.

Sorry, I'm kinda thinking as I type - bad habit. Now that I've clarified things (to a certain extent ), any further thoughts?

[Cal]

Do you have somewhere to keep a car trailer? It is a fairly large commitment. Perhaps start with a road registered one and if you want to take it further, sell it and move onto a dedicated track or even race car. It's a tad addictive.

Cal.

[Matty]

the road registered/track only call is a big one for which I can't offer advice.

The issue of what setup is important. Consider carefully which club you are likely to participate with, and how that will affect what mods you might want for what class (eg, they might not let you compete in stock in an unregistered car????)

As you're aware, a dead stock MX-5 is great fun on the track, you don't \"need\" mods to have fun. But you might want mods to make the car competitive, if that gets you hooked (and it will). You really don't need to do anything to make it more \"durable\", apart from regular maintenance. The cooling and braking systems are perfectly adequate for track use on a relatively standard car.

Start with the basic options: roll bar, 4-point harness, good brake pads and fluid, etc.
Leave out unnecessary weight and options (though I like power steering).
From there the list is pretty much endless: shocks, springs, swaybars, intakes, exhausts, engine internals, ECUs, chassis mods, basically whatever your budget can handle...

[Revolver]

Thanks guys - some good advice there.

Thinking through what stage I'm at, a stock NA sounds like the go. I can progressively mod it later if (as I suspect) the bug bites.

As for registered/track only, costs aside there's quite a degree of hassle involved in having an unregistered vehicle (storage of car and trailer, need to tow it everywhere, including just to have work done on it). Since I'm not starting with a heavily modded car, it makes sense to me to have a road registered vehicle for ease of transport and storage (and of course the odd fun blat if I get tired of the .

Assuming nobody comes up with a different view, what should I be looking at paying for a stock NA, bearing in mind that it's never gonna be a show car (e.g. some scratches, etc aren't gonna bother me so long as the paintwork will withstand rust)? Particular model years to avoid? Tell tale signs of abuse? Recalls? Any and all advice very much appreciated.

[Benny]

Having a car you can drive to the track and back is the most convenient, but buying a racing car is probably the cheapest way to do it.
You can buy reasonable MX-5 race cars, with a trailer for around the $10K mark, which is cheaper than buying a 1.8 street car in any sort of decent condition.
Considering you are going to turn it into a race car anyway, and spend a lot of money doing it, start with a race car in the first place.
If you don't like it etc., you can always sell it later for roughly what you paid for it, and you will loose a lot less doing it this way than spending 12-15K on a road car, then anohter good few thousand $$$$ convertingit later on.

[Revolver]

Also good advice.

Hmm, seems to be a cost/convenience trade off.

I'll think on it some more but it seems to me that I could run a road registered stock car for convenience for a year or so while I learn the ropes and then sell it and buy a race car later on if the hook hits.

I've also gotta say that although I see the economic sense in buying a race prepped car, there's always something fun about taking a base car and building it up in your own way.

I kinda thought from the begininng that I could buy a car for $10Kish and throw another $10K at it over time.

Oh well, I'll mull it over some. Just bought some new digs so I'm still in the research stage atm. Hopefully be ready to do something in a few months.

Meanwhile, any further suggestions gratefully received.

[CT]

Except that turning a road car into a race car is a lot of hard work or a lot of money - generally both. Either car is a compromise but I think you have got the right idea. Get a cheap 1.8 NA, shocks, springs, sways, intake, exhaust for mods and go nuts. You can drive it anywhere, it will be quick whatever event you choose, track, hillclimb, motorkhana etc and you will have a ball doing it knowing that if you kill it, it's not the end of the world.

Just do it!

[green_comet]

Get a NA8 Clubman, comes standard with Torsen LSD, Bilstein shocks, no ps, no ac... should do you quite well for a track car.....

[Revolver]

knowing that if you kill it, it's not the end of the world.

Precisely why I've given up the idea of flogging my 8 and decided to get an old 5.

If I'm going to plough the infield or even worse hit something, I'd much rather do it in a $20K car than in a $65K car.

Besides, there's only a handful of guys tracking 8's with any regularity whereas it's clear that the 5 scene is well established and obviously has plenty of scope for moving up the rungs as you improve.

Thanks again guys. Appreciate the friendly advice. Once the mortgage hit has been absorbed I'll start looking about.

I take it from the general silence that there's nothing particular to look for with 1.8 NA's?

[Revolver]

Get a NA8 Clubman, comes standard with Torsen LSD, Bilstein shocks, no ps, no ac... should do you quite well for a track car.....

What would I expect to pay for a suitable example and are they rare as hen's teeth or relatively available on the used car market?

[red63sprint]

Clubmans are around - a guy on the forum just bought one for ten Kish.!
Mine cost me 15kish, but I love it.
No power steer Bilstien shock, LSD.
GREAT FUN.
Cheap to insure if you are old too.
MUCH NICER than a stock import.
Just watch this forum and a nice car will come up.
THen buy some sticky tyres, join the club and your laughing!!!