Familia GTX engine swap or alternative legal turbo install

Astroboysoup · Postby **Astroboysoup** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:37 am

npower wrote:You won't be able to use the turbo manifold from 1.6 onto 1.8. They are different. To do 1.6 turbo will be a lot easier. Buy a set of wiseco piston to lower the compression if you can, and use standard rods. Emanage will be capable to do the conversion. Get a 400x500x60 size intercooler and do the custom piping. Then you are done for the conversion. The stock engine is a bit stronger than you thought. It might not be quick as familia conversion, but a lot cheaper. And you can upgrade other gears to set higher boost later on, beat stock 1.8 turbo easy.

that was my first plan.... but its not legal here in SA. I can't do it. so i have to go for the engine conversion with a turbo on it already. hence the familia gtx

from what i've been told, you guys in QLD don't have to do any emmissions testing unlike we hve to here. so that is another option i could consider. comply and register the car with QLD plates. Cops here would probally defect my car either way and send me to qld to get it checked out. and im not sure about the legal issuses with that either. im sure there is a loop hole somewhere there.

Astroboysoup · Postby **Astroboysoup** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:49 am

Moggy wrote:Well I'm not sure about the legalities exactly...

As for the ecu, I'm using a full aftermarket computer - a Microtech LT-10s (I consider this computer to be perfectly adequate for the task - before anyone starts MT bashing ). The issue with a piggy-back ecu is the ignition. The BPT has a dizzy with only one ecu ignition input while the mx5 runs twin coils with two ecu ignition inputs. Now I am not sure if a piggy-back ecu could deal with the twin inputs from the mx5 coils and convert them to a single input for the BPT ecu. In the end, I think replacing the stock ecu is the best idea.

You may be able to use the NA computer if you get a 1.6 but you would still need a piggy-back to control fuel with the different requirements of the turbo engine. I didn't do this so I can't tell you exactly what to do or even if it is possible...

I am pretty sure if you got a GTX B6 the manifold patterns are the same as on the NA B6... I don't have one so I can't tell you for sure though.

Once again, I am not sure of the legalities but I would definitely be getting a turbo of T25-T28 size for the B6. I would sell the VJ20 and bolt up the turbo set-up you have if you can.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help but I used a BP not a B6 - in hindsight I would go the B6 though as it would have been much easier...

hey moggy

I am running a 1.6 in my car atm... so it looks like the 1.6 gtx is an easy legal solution for me now. I'll have to get some confirmation about the manifold patterns to be sure.. i'll just visit a wrecker with my manifold and try it out.

as for the ecu and timing, I have a NA6 1.6 ecu / engine in the car now, so using the twin signal coil pack from the NA on the GTX B6 with the NA6 1.6 ecu piggy back with the emange should work?

Moggy · Postby **Moggy** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:49 am

I don't see why not...

So long as the emanage gives you full control of fuel and ignition you should be fine with the NA ecu. I'd ring around places that have experience tuning the emanage to see what their opinion is just to be sure.

Apart from that, there shouldn't be too many hassles (major ones that is!). Sabre's how to for the BPT conversion is excellent and should be pretty helpful to you.

Link to that:
http://archives.aus-cartalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=10144

Astroboysoup · Postby **Astroboysoup** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:24 pm

yeh the emanage can control both the ignition and the injection which is just perfect really.

I've heard mix reports from people though that don't like the emanage cos it controls the ignition by altering the signal of the CAS.

does it matter really??

I'm planning on getting the emanage ultimate, comes as a complete package with the basic wiring looms, software, usb cables and lots of self tuning guidelines etc.

Duj · Postby **Duj** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:57 pm

peter,
you should give mildren automotive/miatasport a call.8443 8299
they've done the turbo thing many times and would be able to provide you with some good assistance,

Astroboysoup · Postby **Astroboysoup** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:24 am

yeh i ahve been speaking to them... they just gave me the standard spill, $5400 for a stage 1 avo kit, which is legal. Wolf 3d etc etc,

anything else they do for you isn't street legal unless you find a loop hole of some sorts that i haven't yet.

my budget is $3000, well thats what I'm aiming for anyway. looks like im gonna be under it easy atm.

GTX BPT installed with my TD04, emanage, new clutch, brakes
done

Moggy · Postby **Moggy** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:59 am

Just thought I'd add a couple of costs you didn't have listed above. There were a few that I didn't expect to have to pay that raised costs a bit...

Tuning - Probably a couple of hours of dyno time - $2-300
Radiator - It's unlikely (but possible) your standard 16mm radiator will be able to cool the engine enough. I got a 38mm PWR one for $800 ( :shock:

). Lets never speak of that again (my wallet is still recovering!).

Intercooler and piping - you'll need an intercooler of some description and piping is usually around $3-500.
Diff - I'm sure you know all about these... Nuff said...
Plus of course all the oil, coolant, gaskets, timimg belt etc all adds up to around $2-300.

Hope this list helps a bit.

Astroboysoup · Postby **Astroboysoup** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:12 am

tuning - was going to do it myself with the help of the emanage ultimate... but.. you know.... so will probally have to pay for that..

Radiator - I've heard of problems, lets just hope that I don't have to fork out the $800 :S

Intercooler - I've got two now... have to get rid of the bigger one. I have a small one about the same size as the one that NPower suggested. Its off a top mounted intercooler of some car.. not sure what it is but its about the same size as the SE intercooler. doesn't get in the way of my air con or my power steering.

diff - ah sh!t...

and all the other stuff that i didn't want to add up in the total cost....

I guess in reality its going to cost me around $5000.... but I just like to think that I only spent $3000.

4sfed5 · Postby **4sfed5** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:48 pm

Astroboy.......
You have asked lots and lots and lots of questions lately regarding turboing your car, and from what i can read you have very little idea on how or what to do, and have gone down many garden paths in the process.

Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and we are all very happy to help you out, but heres some advice......

Make a plan on how much Hp you want to acheive, and your budget.
Ring around places like AVO and other turbo suppliers and ask if thier kits are legal in your state.
Talk to any other turbo owners in your area about how they did it.
Find out EXACTLY what is required to make the car legal in your state.
Now if the combination of cost/legality doesnt work, then you are going to have to think about your goals or move to another state!!!!!

Youre idea of using a GTX engine is not going to work because the whole engine swap legality thing is only valid if you swap BOTH ENGINE AND COMPUTOR over into the new car. Which you CANT do in an MX because the gtx distributor wont fit, and the mx5 coils wont work with a GTX ECU.

Ask whoever makes the rules if they will accept the Greddy turbo kits \"CARB\" certification and think about buying one of those.

IMO buying a $2000 engine and then having all the hassle of fitting it and modifying it to fit with prog management and different manifolds is going to cost you way more than turbo'ng your 1600.
You would be better off buying an avo manifold and turbo for you 1600 the starting from there.

Then use a piggy back such an an emanage which will do fuel and timing and will even fire two extra injectors if thats what you need.(You may need to use the extra injectors as turbo fuelling when on boost so as not to affect youre cruising mixtures for EPA approval)

A guy in my local club put a Mazda GTR engine into his MX. and what he spent in fabrication... he could have had a full AVO kit on a built 1600 with all the bells and whistles and much much less hassle to boot!

Im running an emanage with GTX injectors on my 1600 turbo no problems. look here:
http://miata.cardomain.com/ride/264041/6

Stay focused and Good luck dude... youre gonna need it.

DIY TURBO ....... Been there done that lovin every minute!!!!!!

Astroboysoup · Postby **Astroboysoup** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:36 pm

you know what 4sfed5

thanks for the wake up slap....

after the hours of reading and studying and wasted monies on parts, I think i'll just get an AVO stage 1 kit which is legal because the emissions testings have already been done for the car.

$5000 plus a little extra here and there for extra parts.

the easiet way would be for me to install in what I have now ready to go with the emanage but of course one of my requirements is the legalities of the install.

so... looks like its AVO the go.

4sfed5 · Postby **4sfed5** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:33 pm

Astroboysoup wrote:you know what 4sfed5

thanks for the wake up slap....

.

It wasnt meant to be a slap. More like a nice relaxing cup of coffee!

I am lucky here in New Zealand as there are no emmisions laws, "If it doesnt smoke, it's legal"

Having to deal with the authorities would make any DIY'er throw a spanner out of bed.
You aussies are so lucky that you have all the turbo companies and ECU manufacturers to chose from though.

yarnmx5 · Postby **yarnmx5** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:44 pm

Astro, I am interested to know how you go getting the AVO turbo kit Regency approved.

Post the outcome.

Good luck.

SuperMazdaKart · Postby **SuperMazdaKart** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:56 pm

shouldn't be too much of a problem. Randymx5 has a AVO turbo on his, but maybe adelaide laws were different back then.

Astroboysoup · Postby **Astroboysoup** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:59 pm

the laws haven't changed since 2003 since Trish White was minster for Transport. Patrick is in now and his CE is more interested in technolgies and support services such as EzyReg.

anyway

I have a friend that is passing his car through the steps to get the car road legal atm with his AVO stage 3 kit. I'm letting him do the run around and getting the approvals.

He has the engineers emissions report being sent to him and then the engineering brake testing is going to cost $1500 + a few hundred for track hire.

The Greedy turbo kit is nice and cheap but there hasn't been any manufacturers emmissions testing done so don't know about that. It would be a nicer cheaper alternative to the AVO kit. no as powerful thought. I'll try and get in to contact with greedy.