high HP Nat Asp

[4sfed5]

I thought the NB 1800 (non VICS) heads were superior to the NA heads in terms of flow? I read somewhere that the valve angeles and ports were different??
Would there be any benefit to using the Vics engine without the vics and custom cams?

[Okibi]

Yeah i've read the same about the NB8A head.

I've been told the VVT engine is better to modify and will make more power as long as you've mastered how to adjust/control the VVT.

Others have said the non VVT engine is better as the VVT is controlled by oil pressure and just too hard to adjust accurately.

[Babalouie]

for the same mods on my NA6A, I went from 62rwkw to 75 rwkw. I have all the loch goodies and the microtech.

Just out of interest, if i went to the 1.8..beside having to change the headers, could i keep the rest of the loch system, ie cat back and intake.

Anyone want to sell a 1.8 engine with all the goodies done

The Lochie zorst and headers for the 1.8 have a bigger diameter than the 1.6 versions, so I would say that you'd have to upgrade to the 1.8 equivalents too...I think the 1.6 is 2in and the 1.8 is 2.25in.

But I would imagine that the intake's all the same...

I thought the NB 1800 (non VICS) heads were superior to the NA heads in terms of flow? I read somewhere that the valve angeles and ports were different??
Would there be any benefit to using the Vics engine without the vics and custom cams?

AFAIK the NB heads have 10hp more flow capability than the NA heads, so an NB engine would be a better platform for a rebuild IMHO.

[irwin83r]

sweet so my nb8a should get to 100rwkw on stock internals. i was hoping so..

though im thinking of keeping it stock and saving like a mofo and then just getting EVERYthing done in one hit.

aiming for 120rwkw, with out going nuts on rpm... starting to sound possible

[roddclarke]

or for around $3k do what roddclarke indicated he & a few others have done to get around the 96rwkw mark.

in my case started with a standard '93 na8 clubman: 74rwkw on dyno dynamics @ autotech cbr

+ simota air filter: $30

+ mania cai pipe: $120

+ stewart performance hiflow cat & catback: $950

+ 32 bit unichip fitted & dyno tuned: $1300

= 94rwkw on same dyno

for a little more power fit headers (stewart performance $600), use your microtech & its built in MAP sensor to replace the MAS, & replace the na8 intake pipe with a hiflow type. depending on the tuner & the dyno you should have close to 100rwkw. & if you want even more power, you can still do the engine work when funds become available again...

ummmmm thats a great figure for standard as my standard 2002 NB8B with a factory 113kw at engine only had 76rwkw standard on the SP motorsport Hub dyno....

93_Clubman - I am superbly impressed that you got 20rwkw without headwork and/or cams. That is the first time I have heard of such gains on an early 1.8 BP. The NB8B engines gain about 10 rwkw with the same mods that you have mentioned and they are a higher compression engine and have VVT. Something is not quite right. My previous race engine had modified head, cams, intake, exhaust and fully programmable ECU (not a piggyback) and it went from 75 to 87 rwkw. Are you sure you're not telling us something?

I agree with CT here...

from my NB8B 76rwkw standard i did:

Mania No drill CAI with Simota Filter
Racing Beat 4-1 Stainless extractors bought cheep of BJ thanks
SP Motorsport 2 1/4 Stainless Cat back system

All that gave me 86rwkw, and only an increas from standard over 4000rpm.. below that there was only 1kw difference between standard and the new setup.

then the SP motorsport ECU and tuning

bring the final figure to the 96rwkw. but heaps more low end and mid range torque than standard...

all these figures were done on the same dyno.

[roddclarke]

Ohh and i didnt say.. ideally i was hoping for tripple figures of rwkw....
but i fell 4 short.. so im not too dissapointed..

[yarnmx5]

If I could get 96rwkw in the NA without any internal engine mods (as rodclarke said) it would be a nice and quick little thing.

I think I might buy an engine and put on a stand and do bits and pieces over next year.

Now the question is: which one NA8A or NB WITHOUT? vvs.

Also, it sounds like a full new exhaust/extractors is required (loch system out the door)...but could my 1.6 clutch/flywheel be ok to keep.??

[Okibi]

NB over the NA

[Abdi]

NB, much better head flow.

[93_Clubman]

ct wrote: Are you sure you're not telling us something?

positive - there are little things like ngk iridiums, magnecor kv85 competition leads & synthetic oil but clearly these wouldn't account for the high standard figure even on an engine with, at the time, only 47k kms. all i can say is reliance automotive cbr were pretty impressed with how it went after doing a major service shortly after i bought it. i picked it up from the original owner who, according to him, had not done any mods. certainly none were visible, but i've not looked internally at the engine, however it does have the original engine #. car was originally canterbury mazda's demo so may be running in had some influence...

seriously though, lets not forget the variation between dynos (even from the same manufacturer) for similar vehicles noted in previous threads. btw, i have dyno sheets, but no scanner unfortunately, otherwise i'd be happy to post. importantly, roddclarke's, others & my mods indicate a fairly consistent 20rwkw is achieveable. & i guess it's bonus if you get a high # to start with...

[Babalouie]

ct wrote: Are you sure you're not telling us something?

positive - there are little things like ngk iridiums, magnecor kv85 competition leads & synthetic oil but clearly these wouldn't account for the high standard figure even on an engine with, at the time, only 47k kms. all i can say is reliance automotive cbr were pretty impressed with how it went after doing a major service shortly after i bought it. i picked it up from the original owner who, according to him, had not done any mods. certainly none were visible, but i've not looked internally at the engine, however it does have the original engine #. car was originally canterbury mazda's demo so may be running in had some influence...

seriously though, lets not forget the variation between dynos (even from the same manufacturer) for similar vehicles noted in previous threads. btw, i have dyno sheets, but no scanner unfortunately, otherwise i'd be happy to post. importantly, roddclarke's, others & my mods indicate a fairly consistent 20rwkw is achieveable. & i guess it's bonus if you get a high # to start with...

Yes there are variations between dynos (I've had 8rwkw variations between dynos both supposedly in Shootout Mode) but I don't think there is any doubt that your car is a healthy bugger

[Brian]

I once went to a dyno tuner, a well known one in sydney who tuned my PRB clubman with a standard 20V Toyota in it. He found 20hp by tuning on the day and had the dyno sheets to prove it to show what great results he had achieved.

Reality was he was fudging the dyno to make it look like it was worth the $$ he charged. Unfortuneately the car had no more horsepower. Next dyno at the same place that did the original dyno had the horsepower right back at the original value.

[Dubly]

A dyno will always have the hp and torque crossing at 5250 RPM. Any change and it has being screwed with.

[CT]

93_Clubman - you are a lucky man then. Wish I had such luck!

The NB head will make much more power than an NA head out of the box (intake ports are ~15% higher in angle and provide a more direct path to the inlet valve). The VVT will make more torque and power again. Trust me, I've spend thousands on headwork on an NA head to make it flow like a modified NB head and it is not possible but you can get impressive results. The VVT will always make more power if it's controlled correctly.

[Dave]

A dyno will always have the hp and torque crossing at 5250 RPM. Any change and it has being screwed with.

Not sure if (as you are a Canadian "import") you have heard of Pauline Hanson, however in her best nasal voice... "Please explain??"