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So here we go.....

Does anyone know about installed Kraken setups?

Would they supercede a nice NitroDann twistmount?

I would be quite interested to see the Kraken setup in an NB. In LHD form.

I think Dann's low twistmount will flow better than the top mount Kraken, and maybe even the new low mount Kraken manifolds. But the cast mount will live forever. Dann had to add a lot of bracing to his welded manifolds to prevent cracking, and even then I believe there were still occasional issues on high horsepower, hard-driven track cars (like Beavis).

The Kraken's are designed to for both EFR and Garrett turbos, same manifold, different dump pipes/elbows. EFRs are generally considered the better turbo, large power band, superfast response and spool; but are more expensive than the Garrett's, and the newer GTX GenII's are quite impressive. I'm not sure how Kraken's would go with the even newer G25-550 style turbos, which would be a near match for the EFRs in terms of performance. Presumably they'd mount to the manifold because T25 is T25, but would need a custom dump I should think.

As mentioned earlier, Kraken make a high mount and a newer low mount kit, that fit both EFRs and Garretts. Low should flow better because of the straighter dump pipe routing, similar to Dann's twistmount. I think packaging on RHD cars (I assume you meant RHD (Australia/Japan/UK not LHD (US/Europe)), will be tight in either configuration if you have AC and PS, but nothing that can't be worked around. Beavis has a high mounted Garrett GTX, but his car is hardly an example of standard fitment! Keep an eye on the Kraken FaceBook and Instagram's he posts lots of build photos, and for RHD cars look for the AC canister on turbo side, or the absence of a brake booster near the turbo.

I have a Kraken EFR kit waiting to install, hopefully later this year. I really wanted EFR turbos, which won't go on Dann's twistmount. As Lokiel discovered, EFRs are very particular about clocking - the wastegate actuator must be completely free to move, or it will bind and you won't get happy boost. This isn't too much of an issue with highmounts there is plenty of clocking options, but I don't know how the Kraken low mount fares, presumably it's ok as there's a few builds in the wild by now.

If you want stealthy, low mount is a good option. But the high mount sits proud and is easily accessible for maintenance, and I think it will be easier to route piping.

You can't get a new NitroDann kit anymore, but if you come across one for cheap in good condition, and you want to run a Garrett for street driving, then it's probably a decent option. However, if you want to drive it hard on track/drift/strip, or you want to run an EFR, then Kraken is the way to go. I figure they're even in terms of aftersales support, Dann is out of business, and Kraken is over in Poland or something, so might as well not exist after initial sale, but he is responsive to communications and does aim to please.

For a LHD NA EFR+Kraken low-mount soultion, see https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/project-midnite-runner-miata-build-thread-101714/

I've posted in the thread warning about the EFR wastegate issues and included Savington's video link on how to orient the wastegate for correct actuator functionality.

ManiacLachy has covered a lot of points and I'll add my own thoughts:

If you want to keep your A/C, you'll need to re-route the #10 compressor to rear-firewall hose.
DON'T try and DIY it yourself, that just gets expensive and in the end you'll still need an A/C mechanic to recharge it anyway.
Simply disconnect this hose and barb, figure out your intercooler hotside plumbing and keep in mind that you need to route a #10 A/C hose, then drive your car to an A/C pro to make the new A/C #10 barb and hose.

Low mount advantages:
* free-er flowing exhaust
* no need to cut the shelf
* lower centre of gravity
* hides turbo
* easier to design heat shield than top-mount(which also helps hide turbo)

Low mount disadvantages:
* Gets very cramped down there (will be a B***H to work on)
* Oil return hose to sump may not be long enough (this was an issue on my original low-mount EFR manifold, not enough rubber hose to damp vibrations)
* I still haven't seen anyone confirm that the EFR low-mount works with the wastegate (even in the thread I posted above)

Top-mount advantages:
* MUCH easier to work on
* Lots of room everywhere

Top-mount disadvantages:
* exhaust doesn't flow as well as low-mount manifold (but who cares with and EFR turbo, it'll produce more hp than you can use anyway)
* turbo is very prominent in engine bay
* custom heat shield is more difficult to make (I still have to look into this)
* may need to cut rear shelf with EFR turbo since it's longer than a Garrett (Kraken's elbow may make this unnecessary, need someone to confirm this)

Just had a look at MT.net's maxrpm "Midnite Runner" video (EFR Kraken low-mount):
https://youtu.be/vyIzfLPMva0?list=PL38uKZWnr2KrEiFmv2yG4C_QYLAT8HwRO
... at 18.05, you can see how short the oil return hose is, ~60mm.

I doubt that's long enough to damp the vibration between the turbo and engine block and will cause oil leaks so "points" go to the top-mount manifold there.

There was a thread about this on the forum a little while ago:

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=76883&hilit=kraken

I posted a query about the short length of the oil return hose on the low-mount Kraken manifold on MT.net (see https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-parts-sale-trade-5/cast-manifold-93586/page6/) and mjcanton pointed out the backpressure issue issue with EFR turbos that make the low-mount solution less desirable due to the short length of the oil return hose.

This issue is discussed here: https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/psa-efr-turbo-oil-drain-information-read-before-designing-your-oil-drain-93944/

Summary:
* EFR's can be particular about their oil draining
* A properly designed system must be the same size as the turbo outlet and stay that size or bigger to the oil pan
* EFR turbos support both a flange drain fitting and an AN-8 barb fitting
* TSE recommend using the flange fitting with an AN-10 hose (that's what their kit came with) and the oil pan hole drilled to 0.5"
* You might get away with smaller drains but if you have standard AN fittings, most likely they're too small
* Oil leaving the turbine housing is not all liquid, it's frothy too and only has gravity to pull it down
* The longer oil drain hose of a top-mount manifold minimises the chance of the froth accumulating in the turbine housing

Highly reccomend the top mount.
No dramas in clearance.
Makes healthy power.
Well worth more than you pay for it.

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Looks sweet!

Jbono7, can you please confirm whether or not you need to cut/trim the rear shelf to fit the downpipe?
I assume that Kraken's rear elbow is designed to make cutting/trimming unnecessary but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere.

For those wondering how the Kraken kit can accommodate both P/S and A/C, Jbono7's photo makes it obvious, the intercooler plumbing MUST be routed in the same manner as the SE, it cannot be routed straight down.

Jbono7 wrote:Highly reccomend the top mount.
No dramas in clearance.
Makes healthy power.
Well worth more than you pay for it.

Nice!

How are you securing those nuts on the turbo-to-manifold studs? Is that a test fit, or the real thing?

Thanks!

greenMachine wrote:
How are you securing those nuts on the turbo-to-manifold studs? Is that a test fit, or the real thing?

Very much hoping that's a test fit? With a couple of grade-8 nuts?

greenMachine wrote:

Jbono7 wrote:Highly reccomend the top mount.
No dramas in clearance.
Makes healthy power.
Well worth more than you pay for it.

Nice!

How are you securing those nuts on the turbo-to-manifold studs? Is that a test fit, or the real thing?

Thanks!

Real thing.
Put copper thread sealer and tighten it in a spiral pattern.
No need for locking hardware if done correctly.


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Jbono7 wrote:

greenMachine wrote:Nice!

How are you securing those nuts on the turbo-to-manifold studs? Is that a test fit, or the real thing?

Thanks!

Real thing.
Put copper thread sealer and tighten it in a spiral pattern.
No need for locking hardware if done correctly.

Just seen this. Copper thread sealer? I know about copper anti-seize thread lube, do you have a link for the copper thread locker? This is a new one on me.

Thanks

Seeing as GM bumped the thread ...

Lokiel wrote:Jbono7, can you please confirm whether or not you need to cut/trim the rear shelf to fit the downpipe?
I assume that Kraken's rear elbow is designed to make cutting/trimming unnecessary but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere.

For those wondering how the Kraken kit can accommodate both P/S and A/C, Jbono7's photo makes it obvious, the intercooler plumbing MUST be routed in the same manner as the SE, it cannot be routed straight down.

Darren, Daffy's wonder-mechanic, who's fitting my Kracken high-mount/EFR said no issues on the shelf. Thinks the ABS line should be clear as well (but will firesleeve it). AC need's a re-reoute as you know. And maybe the heater pipe will need to me re-routed, but TBH I'm not exactly sure what he's talking about here, maybe the hose into the firewall, or the water pipe hose that runs under the manifold? I'll attempt to confirm.

IC piping will go the SE route.