How Much Torque are YOU getting?

[THE REAL BORIS]

My SE produces the same ultimate rwhp as the FM on this chart, with almost the same mods. (AEM inlet instead of the FM inlet but otherwise the same).

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_run ... _no_AF.pdf

BUT the torque is WAY down. So, how do your SE's look with similar mods?

Approximately as follows :-

RPM FM SE
2500 125ftlb 90ftlb
3500 170ftlb 120ftlb
4500 190ftlb 145ftlb
5500 190ftlb 170ftlb
6500 160ftlb 160ftlb

Boost is 10psig by 3000 rpm

[blackster]

Not many aussie dyno's give ft/lb @ the wheels unless you ask the operator spefically for it, what you usually see is newtons atw. Even if AU members were to give torque in ft/lb; you cant compare that with a US let alone FM rotor dyno, we have different correction factors.

[THE REAL BORIS]

All (5) dyno runs have been on DynoDynamics Shootout mode.
2 at ChipTorque on the Coast and 3 in the UK.
Here are my SE (at the wheels) figures in Newton Metres
2500 122NM
3500 162NM
4500 197NM
5500 230NM
6500 217NM
6700 MAX. 147.4KW
It isn't the ultimate figures that appear to be a problem, it's at the lower rpm.

[Jeo]

Doesn't matter what rpm you are measuring it at, refer back to blackster's post.

[THE REAL BORIS]

Doesn't matter what rpm you are measuring it at, refer back to blackster's post.

???????????

[THE REAL BORIS]

HP=Torque x RPM /K (Where the constant K is simply to suit the units of measurement).

So, it absolutely DOES matter what rpm you are measuring at.

According to the Mazda sales brochure the stock SE produces 206Nm maximum torque at 4,500 rpm; that's at the flywheel of course. My car is producing 197Nm at the same 4,500 rpm but at the wheels and I know that is NOT the maximum but that is NOT what I am trying to find out. I am simly trying to find out what torque (in any units) other SE's are producing particularly at the lower end of the rpm range.

Isn't anyone prepared to just help with their torque figures?

[Jeo]

No, what I said was re-read blackster's post, specifically the part on...

Not many aussie dyno's give ft/lb @ the wheels

and

you cant compare that with a US let alone FM rotor dyno, we have different correction factors.

I have always been told that torque figures on chassis dynos are practically guess work which you would be better off ignoring. Note that I'm only referring to the number attached with it, the curve itself and the point at which said number is derived can be useful.

Therefore my previous statement of

Doesn't matter what rpm you are measuring it at, refer back to blackster's post.

is still completely relevant.

[THE REAL BORIS]

This is like driving nails into fog.

[THE REAL BORIS]

I hope to highlight the problem in a clearer fashion.

This is a transposition of lbft torque curves at the wheels from my own and FM charts.

I know the original differences re dyno, units, temps, operators, etc. BUT the two stock runs from the MSM and the SE are not worlds apart.

HOWEVER, the two modified runs from the FM MSM & SE bare no resemblance. The SE has a full FM exhaust, FM mbc, FM bypass valve and FM intercooler plus an AEM inlet and a Begi tbe. So, pretty similar.

I think this shows the point that I am trying so hard to make.

I am simply asking, if anyone else is getting these sort of figures; either mine or FM in a similar state of tune? PS Ignore the reference to the (removed) Robert Miller run.

[blackster]

HOWEVER, the two modified runs from the FM MSM & SE bare no resemblance.

I know the original differences re dyno, units, temps, operators, etc.

You answered your own question. If by chance those variables mean nothing, have you thought that perhaps FM does 1:1 runs; meaning its done in 5th gear, therefore altering hp & torque?

There is a member on here that posted a formula converting newtons atw to Nm atw, from recollection the power run has to be done 1:1. So again, AU dyno dynamics and mainlain figures are not helpful, as they use 4th gear.

All in seriousness the only way your going to find similar torque figures, is if two different SE's with identical mods use the same dyno. Perhaps you should stop putting so much emphasis on dyno's, there just tuning tools; does your butt dyno feel a difference?

[THE REAL BORIS]

Can anyone give me their wheel horsepower at 3000 rpm with similar mods. to MX-5 Mania's SE Turbo kit Stage 1????

[MINX]

Heres mine.
But as stated before, the actual numbers vary from dyno to dyno and technician setup.
But the curve should give a reasonable representation.



I dont have a Torque print out

[THE REAL BORIS]

AT LAST!!!!!!!!

Thanks Minx.

We have a VERY similar spec. 10psig with an FM mbc (at 2800rpm for those that will inevitably feel they have more to say) AEM; Full FM Exhaust; GFB Bypass valve; Boost cut bypass with GFB Turbo fuse at 12psig; FM Intercooler; Begi tbe; RC 310's & 147.4 rwkw on a Dyno Dynamics Shootout.

NOW,
Your 60rwkw at 3000 rpm is 80rwhp = 141lbft of torque
My poor little SE is only producing 100lbft of torque at the same 3000rpm.
I have a problem; you don't of course.
Will return when I get to the bottom of this ........... THANKS AGAIN

[THE REAL BORIS]

All is found out!

I deliberately tried a different dyno shop today and the result was same top end as before (almost identical) but now showing all the "missing" torque was due to the two previous runs.

i.e. There was nothing wrong with the car at all; just the #$@$$** people on the other dyno!!!

So, all is well.

Flywheel horsepower was still rising at the rev. limiter at 235.4 bhp
& the flywheel torque at 3000 rpm was 148 lbft with 8.5 psig boost.
Boost climbed steadily but did not reach 10 psig until 4750 rpm & was still 9.6 psig at the limiter.
Boost peaked at 10.5 psig at 5900 rpm.

[Caffeine]

So it turns out after all that different dynos (whether caused by the operator, or conditions, or settings etc) give different results.

If only someone had mentioned that at the start we could have avoided all this bickering...