Cosworth supercharger for the NC

[greenMachine]

What about running your stand-alone in parallel mode?

That way, the stand-alone runs ignition and fuel, but the stock computer still thinks that it is running things, and so runs all the other functions too. The best of both worlds?

Way back when the earth was still cooling, there was a fellow called Shiv on the big forum who had this parallel mode pretty well sorted. Of course, computers and their functions have come a long way since then, but I would have thought that the principles still held.

The bottom line is, I would not like to run an interceptor solution if I had the option of directly managing the critical engine functions.

[CoffeeBoss]

What about running your stand-alone in parallel mode?

Corky Bell / BEGI have tried this i believe - obviously without success though. Currently their setup, from what i understand, reverts to the factory loop under normal load conditions, and then uses intercepts under load, say when more fuel is required than what the standard ECU would provide. There's pages of discussion (and argument ) on this can of worms in the big forums.

Way back when the earth was still cooling

But there is now enough evidence to indicate that it is cooling again.. but let's keep THAT can of worms closed. One is enough

[greenMachine]

What about running your stand-alone in parallel mode?

Corky Bell / BEGI have tried this i believe - obviously without success though. Currently their setup, from what i understand, reverts to the factory loop under normal load conditions, and then uses intercepts under load, say when more fuel is required than what the standard ECU would provide. There's pages of discussion (and argument ) on this can of worms in the big forums.

Way back when the earth was still cooling

But there is now enough evidence to indicate that it is cooling again.. but let's keep THAT can of worms closed. One is enough

That doesn't sound like PEMS setup, just an interceptor fiddling things .. better get across there and catch up with current thinking/fashions - thats in the power/supercharging section?

[CoffeeBoss]

There's actually quite a few threads where they duke it out on the topic of Cosworth Supercharger VS Begi turbo, but here's some of the more interesting ones:

George, the current posterchild for the BEGI turbo kit for the NC, has a thread here

Bit of info on the ZEDE piggyback for the NC here

Cosworth Vs Bell thread here

Thread on the blown engines here

Sniper Vs XEDE thead here

Ah, here it is:
Reverse Engineering the NC ECU Thread

[CoffeeBoss]

And here is the thread on Flyin' Miata's supercharged NC development. They are using a different supercharger and different layout, and have put bigger injectors in. But ended up dropping the development because they couldn't compete with the price of the Cosworth kit.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=302659

[greenMachine]

Heads up you NC people, I see the cossie is back!

According to the Goodwin site, it's a bare kit, no engine management, and for those who have bought already, a rods and pistons upgrade.

[CoffeeBoss]

Hmmm... so to old customers they'll give stronger internals, because hey we don't have a leg to stand on, but to new customers we'll sell this to you, but then you're on your own, and if your tuning isn't satisfactory and your engine goes bang well hey we warned you repeatedly here on our website!

[greenMachine]

Just talking through my hat here, but it looks to me as though the problem has been a dud engine management solution. I reckon that offering upgraded internals to existing owners is simply insurance, particularly for those whose engine may have been already damaged but not enough to fail just yet.

If it were me (and oh, how I do wish it were me), I would either run a full replacement ECU, or a replacement ECU running in parallel setup (just handling fuel and ignition) with the stock computer doing the rest.

It would be interesting to know just how much boost the stock internals can handle, with a good ECU managing the spark and fuel. I am not sure what level of boost/output Brian Goodwin is running, but he seems to have got a handle on it and made it work.

[CoffeeBoss]

Just talking through my hat here, but it looks to me as though the problem has been a dud engine management solution.

There's pages and pages of discussion on exactly this topic on the big forums - a few links in my posts above. Certainly it does seem that way. However BEGI seem to be having fewer troubles with their turbo setup. Blue Meaney is one of the first Cosworth users in the states, and he is already on his second engine. He'd definitely be one to speak to about the experience thus far.

It just irks me that Cosworth wont step up and offer a proper plug and play solution liked they said they would from the outset. Charge more and provide a known working ECU solution as part of the package. TTE (Toyota Team Europe) did it for the 2L six in the Lexus IS200 and it is a proven horsepower solution for that car (albeit on a stronger engine, but one of very similar output in stock form as the NC's MZR motor).

On the back of all this, if I were in the situation to consider more HP I'd be seriously looking at the 2.3L swap. However a forced induction NC does have a certain appeal

[Richee]

.. On the back of all this, if I were in the situation to consider more HP I'd be seriously looking at the 2.3L swap. However a forced induction NC does have a certain appeal

This was mentioned on goodwin racings forum and Brian Goodwin said that the 2.3 swap is not as simple as one would think. There was talk of an Exede magagement system which worked pretty well with the Cosworth SC

[zombie]

This was mentioned on goodwin racings forum and Brian Goodwin said that the 2.3 swap is not as simple as one would think. There was talk of an Exede magagement system which worked pretty well with the Cosworth SC

Brian's working on a 2.5 swap right now - with some Formula Atlantic MZR bits too *drool*

In other news... I've got some Cosworth bits heading my way now

[CoffeeBoss]

In other news... I've got some Cosworth bits heading my way now

You know Matt, a number of us are waiting patiently to hear more about this... or am I just looking in the wrong place?

Just doing a bit of catching up on the ECU/Forced Induction scene in the US.

Apparently a rep from DP Tuning in the US has been on Miata.net saying they can reflash the stock ECU? Seems they are starting to do some cars over there, and believe they will have a base ECU tune for stock Cosworth setups.

I found this quote by Stephanie from Begi quite interesting, I think it encapsulates everything that has occurred thus far in the world of forced induction NC's:

The limited failure, of one specific part, should be of little consequence. The Sniper was identified as the cause/problem. And since fixed. It has not helped that, at first, everyone was saying this motor should not be boosted due to the higher compression ratio. I think that theory has since been proven incorrect. Then there was Cosworth with "let's blame the engine internals". But then the Supercharged car with an Xede is still running fine. Then Cosworth starts selling the NC kits minus the Sniper. You see where I am going here... There is one part to blame. It has been removed from the equation. Since then, no reported engine failures.

I have the position where I get to try lots of new things. Some unsuccessful, some that worked great. I would not hesitate to forced induction an NC motor. I have way to many people, who know more than myself, telling me that it is a non-issue. As long as there is plenty of fuel and accurate ignition timing control, there will be no issues. And that is what the engine failures, thus far, have verified.

[zombie]

You know Matt, a number of us are waiting patiently to hear more about this... or am I just looking in the wrong place?

I know, I know.. It was meant to be a teaser post, to be shortly followed by more news, but more news has yet to eventuate.

The story so far...

I have received the following Cosworth bits from Goodwin Racing: Forged low-compression Pistons, Forged Rods, Cams.... and the Stuporcharger



I also sourced another engine so that the workshop can take their time installing the new internals, and I can keep driving my NC (which is my daily driver)

Unfortunately that's where the story ends, as I'm now waiting for said workshop to clear their backlog (including rebuilding a fellow club member's SE engine, with new manifold, new (Garrett?) turbo etc) before they start on mine.

Apparently a rep from DP Tuning in the US has been on Miata.net saying they can reflash the stock ECU? Seems they are starting to do some cars over there, and believe they will have a base ECU tune for stock Cosworth setups.

Oh yes I've been following those threads very closely. They've only got limited experience with NC2s so far, and I don't know how keen I am on sending my ECU back and forth for them to fine-tune it. I wonder if I could tempt Joe for a "working holiday" to Australia I'm sure a few of us could get together (group buy!)

[...] there was Cosworth with "let's blame the engine internals". But then the Supercharged car with an Xede is still running fine. Then Cosworth starts selling the NC kits minus the Sniper. You see where I am going here... There is one part to blame. It has been removed from the equation. Since then, no reported engine failures.

I've suspected all along that the Sniper tune is to blame for the engine failures, so I've been looking closely at the XEDE interceptor solution, as the yanks have much success with that. My workshop is a Trust distributor, and he's got several "e-manage" units on the shelf (which is their version of the interceptor) and plenty of experience tuning them, so we are going to try that first - and otherwise look at the XEDE.

We also discussed running a parallel install with a full ECU (eg Motec) but I can not find any information of people doing so on the NC, so have no idea how happily the two ECUs will coexist.

In the meantime, we play the waiting game... Those who know me, know I can be very patient, so I haven't set a specific date by which I expect it to all be "done" - nor do I have any real expectations of how much power this little beastie will be producing, we'll just wait and see

It's not as though I don't have an awesome, insanely fun little car to drive around whilte I wait.

[Sailor]

I'm currently having a dialogue with Ricol Automotive re the cost/feature benefits of the Xede piggyback and the Haltech Platinum 1000.
Xede will require splicing into the loom whereas the Haltech can be done as a plug in unit so it's easy to change back when the car is sold.
I'll be making the decision in the next week then a dyno run dead stock, install the new ECU and a full dyno tune.
That way I can track every gain I get from each mod along the way, starting with a RS header.
Should be an interesting exercise.

BTW, I plugged a Scanguage in and have run it all this week.
It's very obvious from AFR readings that the stock ECU will benefit from a little piggyback help.

[Sailor]

Bullet's been bit!
Power run on the dyno on Friday at Ricol to see what comes up, then Xede and exhaust and a tune to see where we're at
Then...onward and upward

Subject: MX5 Supercharger Kit to Australia

Hi Robert

Thanks for the order, we should have that out Monday.

I still have the 4.1 ratio in both our cars.

Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
http://www.good-win-racing.com