Prepping SE for Chiptorque flash

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:17 pm

Describe the existing car to several tuners.

Tell them the outcome you want and ask them how much it will be and how long to do all the work, including getting the car starting and running perfectly, with the alternator working correctly, with lots of smooth, bog free power, proper idle with or without a/c, brakes, steering etc, and room for further upgrades. If any of they don't or won't or seem to be pretending to not understand you, and/or can't or won't answer all the above, and/or tell you anything remotely like "there are no guarantees", and/or won't keep you mobile if they go over the time quotes, run away from them.

ECU first might be the way to go, and the drive-in, drive-out Adaptronic + injectors option looks pretty good. If that's more money than the present budget, wait until the budget fits the work, so you can at least get the one supplier to take responsibility for the ECU and the injectors and how they work together. If you do go that way, ensure you only pay them to do the job right once and that they'll happily do fine tuning for free later if they didn't get it right first time.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:18 pm

Roadrunner wrote: So if I got pulled up by EPA and they did a sniff test, the re-flash would fail?

You would have to ask Chiptorque if the reflash still meets emission laws. Once you modify/replace the ECU it requires emission testing, that is the law.

Maybe Chiptorque could chip in and correct if I'm wrong.

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:11 pm

I'll shoot an email off tomorrow, but I'd say with larger injectors etc emissions would fail so I think I'll not worry and take the risk of being tested.

I'm a bit worried now that since I won't be driving to qld for a tune, the "best guess" method might be risky.
I'll also ask what they recommend as suggested re upgrades but I thought id ask here first.

Nevyn72 · Postby **Nevyn72** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:55 pm

One other thought I had about this process....... What about the immobiliser? Is part of the factory ECU?

For those with either the Chiptorque or a standalone ECU (whatever brand), is your immobiliser still functional?
Probably a significant consideration for those who use their car as a DD........ :wink:

kenson · Postby **kenson** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:03 pm

Nevyn72 wrote:... For those with either the Chiptorque or a standalone ECU (whatever brand), is your immobiliser still functional? ...

It still works and is a separate module

wasabi · Postby **wasabi** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:34 pm

I'm in a similar boat to most people... My SE has a heap of stuff done to it & although it drives fine, you can tell it's not running anywhere near factory smooth.

Spoken to a few different parties in regards to stand along ECU's (IMHO the best way to go) & the Adaptronics seems to be the best bang for your buck in regards to what it is capable of for the money. Obviously there are other ECU's on the market, some of which that seem to be more advanced (Emtron, new Haltec range, Motec), but they are more expensive. Like others have suggested, it does all come down to what you want to do with the car in the future. I see no issues with flashes from Chiptorque if you've effectively finished your mods... Just make sure you think hard about your potential future plans before you part with money.

Roadrunner wrote:
Magpie wrote:Lokiel makes the important comment of legal. The Chiptorque retains the stock ECU so any modification to the ECU is impossible at first glance, however an emissions test will reveal the truth.

So if I got pulled up by EPA and they did a sniff test, the re-flash would fail?
That I did not realise! (Having said that I don't hang out with the doof doof kids at Saturday night hot spots so low risk of being pulled up)

And see what I mean about the 4000rpm issue, I get mixed responses every time

Lots of info to take in.
Iv been following the adaptronic forums regarding setup and new software controls regarding idle and alternator control so that looks promising.
Perhaps I'll just get the intake first and see for myself how it goes

Just my 2 cents... My understanding is that basically once you start to modify your car (Be it with bolt on parts or tuning) your car is not likely to be emissions friendly. That being said, unless you're really unlucky, if your car is tuned correctly (IE: Not running super rich, blowing lots of smoke, etc) the "sniff" test is not going to be something that does you over.

As an example, in my ute (SS-V) when running the standard exhaust / tune you could easily tell which type of fuel I was running at the time - Used to switch between 98 & E85. With the mods I have done to it (OTR, 3 inch catback, headers, tune) I don't get a second look. Sure, it's a common car, but it doesn't blend into the crowd. If it was scrutinized you'd probably find that it doesn't comply to emissions restrictions & sound restrictions. Even HSV came out prior to the launch of their new range & stated that 340kw was all that they could extract while still remaining within the emissions restrictions. We all know that are capable of running a heap more.

The way some have gotten past these potential emissions concerns (Chiefly in WRX's, EVO's, etc) is to switch to E85. It is far more emissions friendly & gives you more power!

Whenever you do mods, you need to be aware there may be risks involved be it with the law, EPA, insurance, etc... Heck, I know guys that have been defected for standard FMIC & strut braces in Sydney!

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:39 pm

Thanks for the input everyone

I'm not 'overly' concerned about being legal. I'm pretty sure the exhaust I have would be louder than allowed already and I haven't had any issues there. But it is always in the back of my mind when being breath tested etc

My wife said last night "pfft like you'd 'never' change anything again" :lol:

which is true, I like to tinker (even though I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing) so I think back to the drawing board and save for standalone and tune when I get there.

Spend money once, spend it wise

wasabi · Postby **wasabi** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:40 pm

^^^

Like your last statement

Always tricky to plan things out. I've been there & wasted heaps of money in the past... Spent up big on a Liberty GT, then started to loose interest & bought an EVO X! All happened within the space of a week.

I'll let you know which way I land up going, but as I said, Adaptronics looks to be the go for the MX5's & is well priced when you look at the drive in drive out offers that Mania offers.

tophus · Postby **tophus** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:19 pm

So in Victoria, even a chiptorque mod to the stock ECU would not be 'legal' compared to a complete ECU replacement?

Also, regarding the modification chiptorque do to the ECU, how does this affect things such as mazda or anyone else servicing the car, can they still plug in and get all the normal info?

And if someone was to plug into the OBD to do a spot check (do they even?) would they see that it isnt stock?

I am currently contemplating moving on to an SE, but am hesitant unless i can easily/legally/insurably do the few mods + chiptorque

tophus

A.Chen89 · Postby **A.Chen89** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:10 pm

Shou don't have anything to fear with installing a full stand alone ECU.
A reputable tuner should be able to make it run like factory. Idle issues should be non existent, cold/hot starts and accessories like P/S and A/C should work.
Either the plug and play Adaptronic stand alone or the Haltech do both alternator control and have can control a boost solenoid. E.g for boost cut, increased boost, boost control.
Have been running an Adaptronic for a year on a 8B turbo conversion.
It's a no brainer especially if you decide to do other mods; even if the initial price for an ECU and tune seems a bit steep.

Lokiel · Postby **Lokiel** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:42 pm

tophus wrote:So in Victoria, even a chiptorque mod to the stock ECU would not be 'legal' compared to a complete ECU replacement?

Also, regarding the modification chiptorque do to the ECU, how does this affect things such as mazda or anyone else servicing the car, can they still plug in and get all the normal info?

And if someone was to plug into the OBD to do a spot check (do they even?) would they see that it isnt stock?

I am currently contemplating moving on to an SE, but am hesitant unless i can easily/legally/insurably do the few mods + chiptorque

tophus

You'll still read all OBDII data with the Chiptorque mod - not the case with standalone ECUs.

Spot checks wont notice anything - the chip is inside the ECU which is under a footplate which is under the passenger's carpet in the footwell.

Your car will only fail in Victoria if it doesn't pass the smog tests so just keep your nose clean, don't do any hard-parkin' modz, keep a low profile (not talkin' about your rims here) and no-one will ever know.

kenson · Postby **kenson** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:17 pm

Roadrunner wrote:Spend money once, spend it wise

That's right!

I also tried the O2 mod, supra injectors etc but ended up going standalone ECU.
No regrets at all. Very happy with the Adaptronic even though the model I've got is pretty old. They even have a very generous trade in scheme.
But at the moment, I can't justify the cost. I'm sure most members here won't mind sharing maps which pretty much gets you there.

Summary of costs (rounded):
1) Second hand Adaptronic: $600
2) Injectors: $400 (DW 700s)
3) Wideband: $200
4) Tune: $300

*: I got a map from a friendly forum member and did some road tuning. Installed everything myself.

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:37 am

kenson wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:Spend money once, spend it wise

That's right!

I also tried the O2 mod, supra injectors etc but ended up going standalone ECU.
No regrets at all. Very happy with the Adaptronic even though the model I've got is pretty old. They even have a very generous trade in scheme.
But at the moment, I can't justify the cost. I'm sure most members here won't mind sharing maps which pretty much gets you there.

Summary of costs (rounded):
1) Second hand Adaptronic: $600
2) Injectors: $400 (DW 700s)
3) Wideband: $200
4) Tune: $300

*: I got a map from a friendly forum member and did some road tuning. Installed everything myself.

Wow even with a brand new ECU the cost is a lot lower than I thought!

I'd love to do as much myself, installing injectors and wideband, getting the car started etc, just don't want to blow up the car!
Looks like I'll be learning how to use Wari software.

Would a base map + a bit of tweaking make the car safe to drive down the freeway to a shop to get a final tune?

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:00 pm

tophus wrote:So in Victoria, even a chiptorque mod to the stock ECU would not be 'legal' compared to a complete ECU replacement?

Mid 2014 Vic EPA update:
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=33873&p=809833#p809833

kenson · Postby **kenson** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:35 pm

Roadrunner wrote:Would a base map + a bit of tweaking make the car safe to drive down the freeway to a shop to get a final tune?

Yep definitely. We did the same thing for Okibi's car too.
If you get a good map from a forum member with the same ECU, ask them what injectors they used and try and use the same ones, that would make life a little easier.
I'd offer you mine, but I'm running a really old ECU.

I ended up using different injectors but once I sorted out the injector deadtimes, the car was pretty much ready to go.
Had to play with the idle a bit but it doesn't stall and runs fine with aircon. I wouldn't go as far as saying it idles like factory, but it's alright.

Costs do add up quickly but at least it's future proof!