Twincharging discussions.

[NitroDann]

Looking at an SC12/SC14, either will allow me to spool the size of turbo I plan. Also the ability to turn the blower on and off with the flick of a switch which allows me to demonstrate the effectiveness of the system and with such a big turbo, it will remain unspooled just driving around town with no blower.

All custom brackets of course, Id be pretty happy If I could run it below the turbo, this allows a very brief pipe from turbo to blower, then It can use a fairly normal intercooler piping solution, but then a V mount is a little different.

It certaintly would be an incredible stealth setup if I could get a decent shield on the turbo.

Dann

[sailaholic]

What about heat from the Turbo radiating to the sc? If someone really wants that system should it be a show piece rather than a stealth set up.

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[NitroDann]

What about heat from the Turbo radiating to the sc? If someone really wants that system should it be a show piece rather than a stealth set up.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Its intended to be a fabricating and engineering showpiece, not a summernats all high mounted as possible setup.

But really Im yet to decide.

the heat will radiate between them, so there will need to be a hefty heat shield if I go that way, but thats what intercoolers and meth injection are for.

Dann

[deviant]

Some serious heat shielding here: http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/produ ... ield/51/21

I am thinking you are going to be making a stupid amount of torque from very low RPM all the way to the rev limit.....What are your plans for holding the driveline together?

[NitroDann]

Skinny tyres.



Dann

[Okibi]

Which supercharger would you be running? Hotside or coldside...

I'm no qualified mechanic/engineer but I think my ideal setup would be a very low mount turbo so the dump goes almost straight back feeding into a twin screw supercharger above.

Have the boosted air run into a FMIC or Water/Air IC into a custom plenum and ITBs.

I think the tricks would be accurately regulating boost from the turbo so once compressed further by the supercharger you didn't overboost.

[NitroDann]

Its not an issue the boost simply adds up.

The issue is fitting the blower above the turbo where a relatively large tubular manifold will be. I intend on running pre blower WMI and a V mount intercooler.

Dann

[Okibi]

Kraftworks centrifugal blower wouldn't be much of an issue to fit but I guess a roots like an SC14 would be more suited to twin charging?

[deviant]

Skinny tyres.



Dann

With an old washer bottle and squirter motor mounted in the boot filled with washing up liquid with hoses that exit above the rear wheels?!

I wonder if there is space at the back of the engine to get a centrifugal type in there and like this have a shaft to the front to pick up the drive. Obviously not exactly like this as it is a Honda engine from a FWD set up...But it might go well with one of those 'front mount' turbo set ups you looked at.

[NitroDann]

These centrifugal blowers are the opposite of what I want. those things people use small turbos to provide the low end, What I want is a blower to provide the low end for a huge terbow.

Dann

[deviant]

Turdblow? I have had two supercharged AW11's...One was SC12 and one had an SC14 conversion.

I honestly dont think SC14 was all that great. A heavy lump of a thing for a start with big dimensions....I honestly could feel its weight hanging out at the back of the AW11. As I understood the point of the SC14 it could give SC12 boost for less speed / heat thus giving you more options for big SC boost down the line but I never explored that option.

What sort of boost do you need the SC to push?

[NitroDann]

Its not boost I need its airflow, mass. I need a pressure ratio of 1.7 odd assuming 80% efficiency.. In other words 9 or 10 PSI from the SC14, this will give me the volumetric efficiency to spool a GT35r or a T3/4 hybrid. If I were using an SC12 it would take a couuple extra PSI, which lowers the efficiency of the turbo due to heat, and makes intercooling more difficult.

The SC 14 is actually quite small for a blower of its capacity, compared to a M45, or the big mx5 blower an MP62, the SC14 is 85 cubes.

My mates aw11 makes 190rwhp on an sc14 with a big pulley. You get 15 odd % more power over the entire boosted rev range compared to an sc12.

Dann

[Aussie Stig]

Sort of sounds less exciting but nothing wrong with the MPS 2.3L turbo engine, period.

Stig

[zossy1]

Clearly this is possible Dann, because it's been done. Not often, but it has been done.

You say the hardware bit will be easy. I disagree. It won't be as hard as Andrew's KL swap, but there is a lot of work in twincharging, especially if you plan on building custom everything from scratch (and feeding it all into custom quad ITBs!). I know you have experience fabbing manifolds, but what you are planning to sit on the cold side of that engine will be an impressive creation if you can make it fit, work, look good, and flow well enough to make it worthwhile. It will also need to support the weight of an MP62 or SC14. They aren't light!

Then, once you are done, it gets even better. You gotta make it all work together and tune the bastard. My guess is you will need to play around with compressor and turbine sizing and porting to get the flow right. Under-bonnet heat will cause some heatsoak issues but these can be overcome. Note that most coldside setups on RHD cars create space issues around the rear of the manifolds as the brake and clutch masters take up considerable space back there. Even the LHD car pictured could not manage a coolant reroute... I'm wondering whether that was laziness or expediency as a twin-charged car should definitely have a reroute.

If I were doing this, i'd just buy a FFS coldside MP62 and try feeding it from a big single through a big intercooler with some water injection, big injectors and a megasquirt running through a 6 speed or Quaife. Then i'd refine it as I learned what it did well and badly. But I'm a lazy SOB.

I wish you the best of luck mate.

[wozzah1975]

Dann,

Have you thought about just running a really good supercharged set up?

We ran an SC14 in a open wheeler race car, 1300cc suzuki GSX, 40lbs boost and alcohol, at the end of it's developement made close to 400hp.

I'd really like to see someone do a well thought out supercharged MX5.

Run an SC14 with big boost (like 25-30+psi). Use a plenum style set up with the blower mounted as close to the inlet as you can, and a reasonably small chamber, and the throttle body mounted on the supercharger intake. Use 2 lots of injectors, one lot in the std place, and one lot before the supercharger (in a small chamber between the throttle body and supercharger), by doing this and using your E85 it cools the supercharger and the intake charge so you don't require an intercooler which is great for throttle response. We never ran an intercooler on the open wheeler, and the intake manifold would be cold after a hard run, it even had condensation on it at times. By running a mixture of acetone and castor oil in your fuel you can probably run more boost, or higher compression if you ever need to. Obviously you'll need the rest of the engine to support it, but you might surprise yourself with what can be acheived.

The instant all out grunt from a well done supercharged car will leave you gob smacked. If you're not happy with it you can always revert back to the twin charged idea at a later date

Cheers
Woz