Overheating?

[davekmoore]

There's 2 fans on the radiator, one that kicks in when the coolant temperature starts to get too hot and another that only kicks in only when the aircon is running. You can modify the aircon fan to switch on when the other fan does so without the aircon on you get even more cooling when stuck in traffic.

There's a write up on miata.net in the garage section I think.

Thanks Okibi.

Down on the Mornington Peninsula I don't get stuck in traffic. Even when there's a (very rare) jam, there's always another way round. It might be longer, but who cares when you're in an MX5?

I know it's just wrong, but if it's over 40 degrees I have the aircon on anyway. Yes, even if the roof's down.

So if I understand correctly, when there's a danger of overheating , the rad fan kicks in, and if the aircon is running, the aircon fan will also cut in? So, since I abuse the aircon as I do, I don't need to do the mod???

[sprx3]

pull some timing out asap that will solve most off your problems, this will stop detination & naturally cool the motor down by a few deg, im guessing it has been tuned with a fair bit of timing in it for more power, fyi the factory ecu does use a knock sensor but wont do its job as the interceptor will notice the ecu pulling timing & add more.

also i have heard very good things about "redline water wetter" & will be using it when im putting my car back together

on a side note, you have an aftermarket radiator, make sure that there is a seal between the front of the radiator & the radiator support panel, this can be easily done by going to clarks rubber & getting 1" or so firm foam strips & stick them between the two which will stop air escaping through the gaps & making sure it goes through the radiator.

Thanks sprx3. Yes, it helps.

Redline will go in today.

There's already foam all the way round the rad - doesn't seem especially firm though, and looks factory. What makes you think I have an aftermarket rad by the way - or did you just miss off the word "if"?

I guess the larger intercooler in front of the rad isn't helping matters much.

We'll see how the redline goes in conjunction with using my right foot as a knock sensor until the retune at which stage the turbo and dump pipe will produce enough extra power that the ignition can be less advanced.

Sorry i missread the cooler for the radiator,

the factory foam is fine, i would take some timing out of your engine asap, this could cause major issues for your motor, any good turner generally tunes a car & then takes a little timing out of it & adds some fuel to make it "safer" & helps on real hot days/ track days & so forth.

you may also want to consider a coolant reroute which can be done a number of different ways.

let me know how you go

Zoran

[Benny]

The thing that really gets hot, is the oil.
If you cool down the oil, the engine will love you.

My SP used to overheat on the track, and since I put an oil cooler on it, the overheating has gone away completely.

If you do go for a larger radiator, it can be made with an internal oil cooler so you don't need to mount another device.

[davekmoore]

The thing that really gets hot, is the oil.
If you cool down the oil, the engine will love you.

My SP used to overheat on the track, and since I put an oil cooler on it, the overheating has gone away completely.

If you do go for a larger radiator, it can be made with an internal oil cooler so you don't need to mount another device.

Erm, this is all well thought out and well meant advice I know, and thanks for it everyone, but I'm getting pananoid here now. There was no coolant loss, just some worrying gurgling noises when stopped once with the front of the car at the bottom of a customer's sloping drive. The coolant didn't go over the max mark and has since dropped, when cold, to between the max and min marks. So do I need any or all of the above, i.e;

coolant reroute?
bigger rad?
oil cooler?
"proper" oil and water temp guages?
less timing advance (and can I do that myself via the haltech?)?
more fuel (and can I do that myself via the haltech?)?
Water Wetter (which I couldn't get off the shelf anywhere locally yet by the way)?

or just maybe one or some of them?

Of course I'd like to do all the above, but would also like some food this week, so opinions appreciated please, also bearing in mind I'm not a big fan of the maybe word when it comes to cooling on a 1.8 with a peak of 15psi and 178rwkw.

[Okibi]

... just some worrying gurgling noises when stopped once with the front of the car at the bottom of a customer's sloping drive...

Do you run a turbo timer? If the turbo is water cooled then the gurgling could be coolant inside the hot turbo boiling because it's not being circulated.

Even in a stock NB the oil temperatures can climb way too high, an oil cooler is fantastic advice.

[davekmoore]

... just some worrying gurgling noises when stopped once with the front of the car at the bottom of a customer's sloping drive...

Do you run a turbo timer? If the turbo is water cooled then the gurgling could be coolant inside the hot turbo boiling because it's not being circulated.

Even in a stock NB the oil temperatures can climb way too high, an oil cooler is fantastic advice.

Aha! Multiple votes for oil cooler, eh?

[davekmoore]

Any advice on how to wind the timing back or wind the fuel up via the haltech - for which I have no CD or instructions, only the two different .imp maps?

[93_Clubman]

...when I've found someone near Mornington Peninsula who can do it - hint for info please...

Dave, sounds like it might be time for an appropriately experienced & setup tuner - Frankston or Dandenong will be your best bet, in fact there's a couple of Haltech dealers over Dandenong way:
http://www.haltech.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=24

There's also wazman's Adaptronic etc tuner who's also over at Dandenong - probably worth checking with him to see how he feels about tunning Haltechs:
wazman: "Me and my mates have been customers with "Status" (now Chequered Tuning) from the start...he knows i wont get it tuned anywhere else. Trent from Status has put 4 of them into toyota sprinters and tuned them..."
http://www.statustuning.com/

[Juffa]

So if I understand correctly, when there's a danger of overheating , the rad fan kicks in, and if the aircon is running, the aircon fan will also cut in? So, since I abuse the aircon as I do, I don't need to do the mod???

My 2.2c worth (GST inclusive).
Given that you have intercooler and a Air Cond radiator in front of the coolant radiator there may be some reduction in air flow to the coolant radiator. The more you can do to maximise air flow to the coolant radiator the better. You also want to make sure the air is able to exit the engine bay as fast as possible. If the pressure differental is greater or the same in the engine bay when compared to the front of the radiator then the air flow will be restricted and therefore is less effective.
Remember that the air cond radiator has to dump heat in order to cool the air and it is dumping that heat right in front of the of coolant radiator. When my now ex-turbo MX-5 overheated on over 35c days the first thing I had to do was turn the air cond off. If you have a switch or modify the wiring to run both fans in parallel at least you have both fans running, even if the air cod is off....a bit of extra protection can't hurt, and the wiring mod is free.
Also, does the Haltec have some way of reading the coolant temp and/or air intake temp and adjusting the timing/fuel based on those inputs? My FM/Link ECU was able to do that which helped reduce the risk of pinging.

J

[Oni]

If ur gonna get a tune done anyway ( provided u cant do it yourself ) Might be worth while going water/meth for some extra octaine and cooling. Should help your pinging issues and gives room for more boost/timing. Granted its from $200-450 for a kit but depending on your setup might be worth it. Devils own and aquamist have some great info on there forums if you think it might be useful. Anyone else think this would help? i know water/meth helps with AIT and reduces temp in combustion so my thinking is less heat in combustion chamber is less heat for the water/oil to absorb and the extra fuel/octaine from meth should raise effective octain to arround 110 octaine ( depending on how much u pump in ). Altho this wont help at all if you wernt in boost at the time.

[Benny]

Many years ago when I had a Turbo Commodore running 21lbs of boost, the car had a water injection system to keep pinging at bay, and it seemed ot work really well.

It was just another windscreen washer bottle and motor with a tube that went into the mouth the 2 carbys.
When the boost went over 7lbs, water would spray into the carbys to cool the incoming air.
With my driving, I just filled up the container whenever I got fuel (which was quite often actually).

I have also seen a CO2 spray bar around the intercooler that sprays the very cold gas onto the intercooler when under boost to lower the air temp.

There are lots of ways to keep your engine cool, but IMHO, any turbo will heat up the oil somewhat, and as it is really the oil that keeps your engine cool, I would still go for an oil cooler.

[CT]

For a haltech E series, goto the main setup and select ignition map. There is an adjustment called Ignition Trim. To take timing out, enter a number such as -1.0 - this will take 1 degree of timing out across the entire ignition map.

Make sure you save the map before you do this. And find a decent Haltech tuner.

Also, the turbo cooling checklist is this:
- Oil Cooler
- SE thermostat
- both fans running in parallel
- coolant re-route
- higher pressure radiator cap
- bigger alloy radiator 40+mm
- 33% glycol coolant mix
- directing air to the top of the radiator and not through the intercooler
- decent intercooler design - not china-ebay ones
- fully fitted under tray
- fully ducted air to the cooler and radiator from the front bumper

My race car has all of these and can run 1bar boost at 8000rpm in 40degree heat and runs perfectly.

[davekmoore]

For a haltech E series, goto the main setup and select ignition map. There is an adjustment called Ignition Trim. To take timing out, enter a number such as -1.0 - this will take 1 degree of timing out across the entire ignition map.

Make sure you save the map before you do this. And find a decent Haltech tuner.

Also, the turbo cooling checklist is this:
- Oil Cooler
- SE thermostat
- both fans running in parallel
- coolant re-route
- higher pressure radiator cap
- bigger alloy radiator 40+mm
- 33% glycol coolant mix
- directing air to the top of the radiator and not through the intercooler
- decent intercooler design - not china-ebay ones
- fully fitted under tray
- fully ducted air to the cooler and radiator from the front bumper

My race car has all of these and can run 1bar boost at 8000rpm in 40degree heat and runs perfectly.

Thank you

[lil red rocket]

I'm after a concensus on turbo cooling - if that's possible.

I have a NA6 with newly rebuilt engine - 1000 kms through the run-in.
Internals: steel head gasket, forged pistons and rods, double valve springs, ss valves, nitrided and modded crank, flowed head. Garret T25 ball bearing Turbo, 63 mm intercooler pipes and Microtec ECU
I have air con and power steer.

This is my turbo cooling checklist so far:
- went to Mazfix in Brisbane to make sure i was running a Run-in config - not too lean/advance
- both fans running in parallel - turn on 84 degrees
- coolant re-route (MX-5 Plus)
- new jap 25 mm radiator with standard cap
- fully fitted under tray
- fully ducted air to the cooler and radiator from the front bumper
- Bonnet vents
- NA8 Oil Cooler ie in front of oil filter
- thermostat opens at 84 degrees
- Fully synthetic oil - Penrite Sin

For hot (30 degrees +) and track days
For Max cooling:
What is the minimum thickness radiator ???
What thermistat should be used???
What Radiator Cap should be used???
What % glycol coolant mix should be used???

Regards
Blue Chilli

[Benny]

I do think you should put an oil cooler in.

Oil is the thing you really need to look out for as all the heat from the oil is circulated throughout the engine and if you can keep the oil cool, then the engine will stay cool too.
If the oil is constantly overheated, then it won't last long and won't protect your engine.

You don't need a huge, expensive oil cooler, just a small one will do, and it will work wonders for any FI engine.
Personally, if you are putting on a turbo or supercharger, you should always put in an oil cooler.