December club track day

[Guran]

This is all good feedback and is appreciated. As David said the club will take it on board for consideration but obviously there are many different opinions and we will always need to compromise. It's not only about the drivers - there are also the timekeepers who need to concentrate totally for each run as the timing is done manually.

We had 90-odd drivers there on Sunday and I was delighted to get six runs of five laps and only a few of those laps encountered traffic. That's an exceptionally well managed event in my book.

Thank you PeterB for returning us to the actual question I asked which was about the 14 driver groups vs our usual practice of 12 driver groups. I suspect your experience with being caught by the frontrunners might have been different if you were driving old Britney. Your "new" gold car was probably better suited to a slower group. You should have a much better experience next time now that you have a benchmark to decide your run group.

[chops]

I didn't run on the weekend so can't comment on 14 car groups but have enjoyed the 12 car 6 minute system

last time I ran I think I caught and lapped 2 cars most sessions in 12 car groups but on either my second last or last laps when I had already done my quickest time so didn't really impact me. I think if you ran 14 cars in group 1 there will be a significant lap time difference at a guess of about 1.05-1.12? meaning the front of group 1 will see a fair bit of traffic fairly early in the run. Also guessing but I suspect the lap time differential in groups 2-5? would be less and running 14 cars per group may work perfectly well?

[Charlie Brown]

We could go on forever with this argument until someone in NSW actually tries longer sessions. Until then it's just all conjecture for NSW drivers.

I’ve run at Winton in an AROCA event Phil and found that I was continually overtaking cars, even starting as the 3rd car out due to the number of cars being feed onto the track. This made it impossible to put down a clean lap for the best possible time. It was fun though passing all those VIC’s.

If you discount nasty Sandown then I suspect that the "off" rate is lower in Vic too because they're not in such a rush to get going fast before they're settled.

I always wondered why the VIC’s had white bowlers hats on the rear deck.

I strongly disagree with the protests that the cars can't take longer sessions either. They do in Vic and we know that standard and modified cars run perfectly well for 2 hours in the 6 hour events. If your car can't last past 6 minutes then you need to build it better, not try to limit the time for everyone else. Alternatively we could set aside special shorter runs for those who want them.

OK now being serious, I agree with you that stock and modified MX-5s cars run 2 hours without any trouble but they sure as hell aren’t running at 10/10ths and putting in near PB’s every lap. We both know that’s not possible as both tyres and brakes go off. When you reach that stage you’re just circulating for the fun of it, which is fine but I’d rather have more 6 minute, 12 car sessions, where I have the opportunity to put down quick times.

I didn't run on the weekend so can't comment on 14 car groups but have enjoyed the 12 car 6 minute system

last time I ran I think I caught and lapped 2 cars most sessions in 12 car groups but on either my second last or last laps when I had already done my quickest time so didn't really impact me. I think if you ran 14 cars in group 1 there will be a significant lap time difference at a guess of about 1.05-1.12? meaning the front of group 1 will see a fair bit of traffic fairly early in the run. Also guessing but I suspect the lap time differential in groups 2-5? would be less and running 14 cars per group may work perfectly well?

Excellent point Chops.

[mazmad]

I don't see any issue with the cars doing longer sessions. I did plenty on standard engine. Yes you need upgraded pads and fluid but that's no big deal, plenty of the cars doing the track days would already have that. And a few cars will have overheating issues.

Whether this is practical or feasible for the club days is another matter entirely.

[Dweezle]

First up, what a great day !!
Thanks to everyone who made it run so smooth.

In regards to the length of the sessions, I think it is spot on.
It is close to a real SuperSprint session length and everyone gets lots of sessions to dial in pressures and setup.

I think 14 was too many cars but with that many entrants it was ok.
I very rarely had a clear lap without traffic but that is expected with so many entrants.

I believe longer sessions will create more recoveries and slow the day down further.



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[Tony]

Why not have three 6 minute sprint sessions in the morning (fastest times are usually had in the earlier runs), with a couple of twelve or fifteen minute regularity sessions in the afternoon? It could be the other way around; doesn't matter really.

I reckon regularity sessions would help many drivers develop a sound technique, without having to focus on trying to set a PB on every lap. Ultimately this will also help to improve their sprint times.

If possible, one regularity session could be run with experienced drivers sitting in as coaches to further assist with development of "race craft" and track skills.

It's a win-win I reckon.

[manga_blue]

If possible, one regularity session could be run with experienced drivers sitting in as coaches to further assist with development of "race craft" and track skills.

I like this idea, Tony. The first timers' practice session in the morning is good, as far as it goes, but many first tmers don't really take it all in because it's all so new. Reinforcing the lessons in the afternoon after they've had a few sessions by themselves could be really beneficial, both for first timers and those who are trying to improve.

[Tony]

Reinforcing the lessons in the afternoon after they've had a few sessions by themselves could be really beneficial, both for first timers and those who are trying to improve.

Let's face it Phil, without some form of coaching most of us are simply going around and around in circles, and perpetuating bad habits. While our lap times may get faster, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are improving significantly as a driver.

A good coach can offer constructive criticism, reinforce good technique and encourage alternatives where poor technique is observed. Development of skills is central to the Club's Mission Statement after all.

Personally I love the opportunity to have a good driver sit in with me for a fifteen minute session or two (or three). I know my technique could use a tune up!

[manga_blue]

On a completely different note, here's something, courtesy of Tristan, from last Sunday that I never want to do again - complete 360 at 150+ through T1



I was trying wider lines and ran into the marbles out there. Not a good feeling at that speed wondering if you're going to dig a wheel in.

[forcedfive]

Nice outcome though. Great footage.

[badface]

I like what tony has to say about having longer runs in the afternoon as people start to drop off and groups are merged.
having some driver training in the afternoon would be fantastic but I can see that being incredibly hard to organise as most of the instructors have their own cars to drive.

[Apu]

Driver training is a great thing, but probably best left to other days / training specific events. It just adds another level of complication to what is an already tight schedule.

Circuit Club for example has Jeff Denmeade available all day.

[Tony]

It may seem as though I'm splitting hairs (and I probably am!), but I'm actually talking about in car coaching during a regularity event; not driver training or car control training in the more traditional sense.

The aim is to help develop a driver's technique by improving their vision, smoothness and consistency. Anyone who watched Matilda on the weekend will know what I'm talking about.

The crux of my original suggestion was however, to mix up shorter sprint sessions with longer regularity sessions; coaching may or may not be included in that mix.

That's enough from me... over and out.

[Luke]

Well, may as well add my 2 cents to the discussion on session times.

I'll start by saying leave it as it is.
This is a timed Supersprint style event that you drive as fast as you can in.
I like the relatively short wait between sessions.
I like the lower cost, by having the ability have more entrants with a suitable number of entrants per group.

When I run the NC, it is stock.
I often get my fastest lap on lap 1 or 2.
On hot days I start having the pads (Hawk HPS) overheat by lap 3 and on cold days often by lap 4. If you look at my times on a hot day, I often do a cool down lap to compensate for this. ie 2 fast, 1 cool down, 2 fast or similar depending on the feedback from the car.
It runs Kumho KU36's which start to get greasy at the rate I push them by lap 3 as well.

When I run the SE, the problem is different.
On Hot days I can generally get 2 to 3 hard laps in before losing power due to heat.
I also cook road tyres early on (Hankook RS-3, Kumho KU-36)
R-Specs don't fair to much better, by lap 4-5 they start losing grip as well.


I have done long runs (15-20 minute sessions) in the past at Wakefield Park, Oran park and Eastern Creek.
They were good for trying things out on the track. But that was for practice.
When I did these long sessions I was constantly overtaking cars or being overtaken once passed the 5 minute mark.
I definitely was not going flat out like I do at MX-5 club track days or NSW Supersprints events.

As the club track days are essentially a competition of fastest car in a given category, I cannot see a benefit in making sessions any longer than what they are now.

[Dweezle]

Here is a vid from earlier in the day.
Not using the Clubs Start finish.



Slow with only a 14.6.

But still Such a great day!!
I really need more seat time, but being back in a RWD after over a year in the Clio was a HOOT!!!

Bring on next year!!!