New Track for Sydney

[Luke]

Apparently the 'Luddenham Licence" has been dropped. Actually incorporated into the day rate with no option for annual discount. Was $220 for a weekday + $30 for the day' licence' or $100 for annual 'licence'. Now simply $250/weekday.
Ian Luff does it here for that.
Driving Solutions does similar on the EC GP circuit for $375 for a half day or $795 for a full day (includes lunch)
Trackschool does similar at Wakefield for $250 for a full day including timing or for $350 Open Pit Lane (includes lunch)
So Trackschool is best value, especially if you live south of Sydney. If you live north of Sydney or in Sydney's west Luddenham offers a much more affordable alternative to Eastern Creek.

My experience with luddenham so far is that they are money hungry and customer comes last.

Please tell about your experience with luddenham so far. Have you done any trackdays there with Ian Luff's Drive to Survive or Bernie Hatton's Top Rider?
Both look like good value to me. Cars $250 weekdays, $295 on weekends. Bikes $230

Hmm, examination time as you don't seem to be comparing apples with apples here.

So doing a quick bit of reading, that pricing you quote is for an Open Track day at Luddenham which is similar in description to a SOTS day at Wakefield Park, ARDC private practice day or MDTC Open Practice Day. The general marketing term for these days is Arrive and Drive. So that would mean Limited instruction with various cars out on track etc. I would also guess there would be very random drivers out there as you don't even need a competition license of any kind for Luddenham.

Lets compare Wakefield pricing for the same thing then.
Weekday, pre-booked: $150.00
Weekday, not booked: $185.00
Weekend, pre-booked: $185.00
Weekend, not booked: $220.00
You can use either CAMS L2S or AASA license.

SMSP is cheaper than is generally portrayed. They are called ARDC private practice days.
You need a CAMS L2S license.
These are on weekdays and they run all day. SMSP is too busy to have these on weekends.
ARDC members: $160
Non Members: $190

Marulan is what Luddenham is really equivalent to other than location.
Open Practice Day: $110
Cams L2S license accepted or pay $50 for a Marulan one.

So other than timing and not requiring a real track license, what are you getting over the 3 well established tracks for an arrive and drive day that makes Luddenham valuable?
Looks expensive to me once you put the alternatives up against it


The other offering of an Academy day sounds very much like a Track School day at Wakefield Park or a Driving Solutions SMSP Trackday.
So basically there are "professional" drivers available to sit with you through out the day but you will still get all sorts of randoms on track with you.
Luddenham Academy Day - $410
Wakefield Park Track School - $295
SMSP Driving Solutions Trackday - $375 Half day though making it pricey. I gather only 3 groups with beginner, intermediate and advanced which could make up for it depending how many groups the other 2 offerings run. Anyone know?

Now the wishy washy part that could make Luddenham a somewhat value proposition is if you are interested in doing a CAMS Observed License Test and you live in Sydney or North of it.
Luddenham Academy day can offer OLT to successful Academy graduates. No idea if this costs more as it does not say. I gather it would. $410 +++?
Wakefield Park Track School do OLT with the track day for $350.
SMSP Driving Solutions Trackday with OLT is $525!!! Still half day.


While I would like to try Ludenham, there is no way I'd pay $250 for an arrive and drive track day that can be had cheaper else where. I generally learn a circuit pretty quick, so don't need 6 to 8 15 minute sessions nor would I be interested in the more expensive days with instructors.

I'm sure the novelty and popularity will wear off in time and they will have to adjust their price to attract customers like me that actually know what a track day is really worth in the open market. It seems others on here are well aware of this as well.

[anastasic81]

My experience with luddenham so far is that they are money hungry and customer comes last.

Please tell about your experience with luddenham so far. Have you done any trackdays there with Ian Luff's Drive to Survive or Bernie Hatton's Top Rider?
Both look like good value to me. Cars $250 weekdays, $295 on weekends. Bikes $230

Let me tell you then. My wife heard about a track being built not far from where we were and she wanted to buy me a gift voucher for my first father's day. When speaking to Luddenham she was advised of the voucher and assured it would be finished by the end of the year. This didn't happen. Then they stated early next year. Didn't happen. Mind you my voucher had a 12 month expiry. When we realised the track wouldn't finish in time given they wouldn't extend even though it was sold on the basis my wife wanted me to use on track, a group of my mates booked a go kart session. At this point it gets bad. When I arrived I was told the the cash voucher with no specials or terms and conditions stated anywhere on it could not be used for booked sessions only arrive and drive go karts. This meant even if the track had finished I wouldn't have been able to use it. So we were lied to. They didn't want to work with us given that we were miss lead. This ended at the tribunal where they paid me back.

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[Nuddy]

My experience with luddenham so far is that they are money hungry and customer comes last.

Please tell about your experience with luddenham so far. Have you done any trackdays there with Ian Luff's Drive to Survive or Bernie Hatton's Top Rider?
Both look like good value to me. Cars $250 weekdays, $295 on weekends. Bikes $230

Let me tell you then. My wife heard about a track being built not far from where we were and she wanted to buy me a gift voucher for my first father's day. When speaking to Luddenham she was advised of the voucher and assured it would be finished by the end of the year. This didn't happen. Then they stated early next year. Didn't happen. Mind you my voucher had a 12 month expiry. When we realised the track wouldn't finish in time given they wouldn't extend even though it was sold on the basis my wife wanted me to use on track, a group of my mates booked a go kart session. At this point it gets bad. When I arrived I was told the the cash voucher with no specials or terms and conditions stated anywhere on it could not be used for booked sessions only arrive and drive go karts. This meant even if the track had finished I wouldn't have been able to use it. So we were lied to. They didn't want to work with us given that we were miss lead. This ended at the tribunal where they paid me back.

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Well that certainly says much about Luddenham Management. We can be glad that they have turned over the car stuff to Ian Luff and the bike stuff to Bernie Hatton. I have heard no bad reports regarding either of these and I'm sure they are keen to maintain excellent reputations.
Perhaps we can be thankful that Luddenham management are not running the track days themselves.

[Nuddy]

Hmm, examination time as you don't seem to be comparing apples with apples here.

So doing a quick bit of reading, that pricing you quote is for an Open Track day at Luddenham which is similar in description to a SOTS day at Wakefield Park, ARDC private practice day or MDTC Open Practice Day. The general marketing term for these days is Arrive and Drive. So that would mean Limited instruction with various cars out on track etc. I would also guess there would be very random drivers out there as you don't even need a competition license of any kind for Luddenham.

I'm sure Ian Luff would be offended to have his track days equated with SOTS at Wakefield. To compare apples with apples we need to look at John Boston's Track Days at Wakefield.

[Luke]

Hmm, examination time as you don't seem to be comparing apples with apples here.

So doing a quick bit of reading, that pricing you quote is for an Open Track day at Luddenham which is similar in description to a SOTS day at Wakefield Park, ARDC private practice day or MDTC Open Practice Day. The general marketing term for these days is Arrive and Drive. So that would mean Limited instruction with various cars out on track etc. I would also guess there would be very random drivers out there as you don't even need a competition license of any kind for Luddenham.

I'm sure Ian Luff would be offended to have his track days equated with SOTS at Wakefield. To compare apples with apples we need to look at John Boston's Track Days at Wakefield.

Really? Have you read their website? Should we an introduce an orange?
You don't work for him out of curiosity...
All I did was go to the websites for each track/company, ignored the marketing rubbish and broke it down into what you get for your money.

The description of the Open Trackday for $250 at Luddenham, is nothing special at all.
You don't get anything special unless you pay $410 for an Academy day, and then that would be at an equivalent level of John Bostons Wakefield day which is only $295.


Here is Luddenham's own descriptions for everyone to read.

Open Trackday $250

Open track days are designed for you to enjoy the Luddenham Racetrack main circuit. Drive at your own pace, explore the upper limits of your vehicle. Laps are electronically timed, available through a simple phone App. You get 6 - 8, 15-minute sessions with groups not exceeding 15 vehicles (Average is 8 - 10). You can complete up to 15 laps before a cool down period, this allows you to make changes to your vehicle, rehydrate and prepare for your next session.

If laps are what you want, this program is for you. Priced very competitively, you won’t find a better track day option in the heart of Sydney, professionally run with a morning briefing and formatted sessions.

These days are great for vehicle testing, shakedowns or for simply getting out on a track and enjoying your vehicle.

Don't see anything in that description about drivers being available to sit in and offer advice/training like a John Boston Day.
If they do offer drivers for this event, wouldn't they market it?
So either they are bad at marketing, or its just another arrive and drive, sots, test day etc.

Academy Day $410

The core of our business for the past 35 years has been driver training. Our Academy Days have produced many champion drivers. Designed for you to learn about track driving from one of our expert trainers, you will have a trainer in the vehicle with you in your sessions.

Each lap is electronically timed, available through a simple phone App. Sessions are conducted with group number not exceeding 8 vehicles and with 15 minutes per session Trainer ratio per session is 1 – 2.

This program is a lot of fun, with the added safety of a trainer with you. Sessions do include some free time for you to explore driving and what you have learned yourself. We conduct a drive off competition in the afternoon for trophies; it doesn’t depend on outright speed, but consistency, accuracy and control to give everyone a chance no matter what you drive.

[Nuddy]

You don't work for him out of curiosity...

No I don't work for anybody.

I've done a couple of SOTS days, a couple of John's days and a Trackday Club at Wakefield.
Also a couple of 'twilight trackdays''with Driving Solutions on the GP circuit.
I'm keen to try Ian Luff's trackday at Luddenham and will compare and report back.

I hear the 'new' Marulan circuit is very different. I only drove on the old Marulan once and was not keen to do that again, if I was going that far I'd go the extra to Wakefield. But I will try the new before I decide.

[Magpie]

I'm tempted to travel down and try and do this track and a SMSP day as well just for the seat time.

Just need to find a day when they both line up and work allows me to disappear...

[anastasic81]

My experience with luddenham so far is that they are money hungry and customer comes last.

Please tell about your experience with luddenham so far. Have you done any trackdays there with Ian Luff's Drive to Survive or Bernie Hatton's Top Rider?
Both look like good value to me. Cars $250 weekdays, $295 on weekends. Bikes $230

Let me tell you then. My wife heard about a track being built not far from where we were and she wanted to buy me a gift voucher for my first father's day. When speaking to Luddenham she was advised of the voucher and assured it would be finished by the end of the year. This didn't happen. Then they stated early next year. Didn't happen. Mind you my voucher had a 12 month expiry. When we realised the track wouldn't finish in time given they wouldn't extend even though it was sold on the basis my wife wanted me to use on track, a group of my mates booked a go kart session. At this point it gets bad. When I arrived I was told the the cash voucher with no specials or terms and conditions stated anywhere on it could not be used for booked sessions only arrive and drive go karts. This meant even if the track had finished I wouldn't have been able to use it. So we were lied to. They didn't want to work with us given that we were miss lead. This ended at the tribunal where they paid me back.

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Well that certainly says much about Luddenham Management. We can be glad that they have turned over the car stuff to Ian Luff and the bike stuff to Bernie Hatton. I have heard no bad reports regarding either of these and I'm sure they are keen to maintain excellent reputations.
Perhaps we can be thankful that Luddenham management are not running the track days themselves.

To me it's not passing judgement on either gentleman but none of my money will ever go the underlying company.

An example of their mindset is demonstrated on their Google feedback. Their response to negative feedback is that the customer is always wrong and they are perfect. On the day of the tribunal when it was concluded that they will pay me back, he mentioned something along the lines of big deal I drink milkshakes worth this much ($160). They even made mention that I was black listed from their facilities which had me in stitches. It was like a break up after a break up with no make up in between.

As other have mentioned. Marulan is $110 for a day. Their track is now just over 1.6km vs Luddenham which I believe is 1.4km.

I've been to Marulan as well as Wakefield many times and they have always treated me well. This is important to me.

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[Spac]

I drove the new Marulan track today. Fundamentally the same as it used to be, with the old speedway now a big S bend in the main track. Gary says that it is really just an upgrade to the track, and it is difficult to argue with that on a logical level.

But... It is radically different to drive! Track with varies between significantly wider and MUCH wider, and there are way more concrete walls. The logic is that they could have left a grass gap between the track and the wall, but adding more tar gives you far more chance of saving it before hitting the wall. Viewed like that, it becomes far less daunting and seems like a very smart idea.

Surface is perfect.

Gary and Natalie were like expectant parents this morning, both seemed happy and relieved this afternoon.

[Spac]

IMG_5300.JPG

[Danny]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02aStS7 ... pp=desktop

[anastasic81]

Drove around a very wet Marulan yesterday. I ran NT01 tyres closed to the dot tread wear markers which meant not much of the wet tread remained. I expected the day to be unbearable but there was grip on the new surface more so in the afternoon as the larger puddles started to dry up a little. The best time I could get on the day was a 1.04.6. The lap record for the track so far has been set at 1 min (not sure what tenths of a second) by the owner in an Evo with slicks. This shows that the track is considerably longer given the surface has more grip and lap times have increase by around 15 seconds.

The new section is awesome. The corners have NASCAR like camber which give you awesome feel when your turning in and powering out.

The track is significantly better than what it was. It feels like a proper race track. It's like a ROC (Race of Champions) course. A lot of fun!!!!






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[NitroDann]

I went to Luddenham last week. It's a nice facility with a beautiful new track that is very technically challenging and the cost was $250 for what was essentially a 6 hour long open pit lane session with only 5 other cars.

I thought it was very good.

One gentleman did around 100 laps.

Dann

[Luke]

I went to Luddenham last week. It's a nice facility with a beautiful new track that is very technically challenging and the cost was $250 for what was essentially a 6 hour long open pit lane session with only 5 other cars.

I thought it was very good.

One gentleman did around 100 laps.

Dann

I have experienced the same at a Wakefield SOTS day. Only about 10 cars when I went many years ago.

Dann, since you have now been, can you elaborate a bit further on how the day was run etc.
From the interweb description it sounds very much like a Wakefield SOTS day. So basically show up, drive in a group of whatever and that's about it. Is it run as described.

[Nuddy]

I went to Luddenham last week. It's a nice facility with a beautiful new track that is very technically challenging and the cost was $250 for what was essentially a 6 hour long open pit lane session with only 5 other cars.

I thought it was very good.

One gentleman did around 100 laps.

Dann

Thanks for that Dann
Sounds good, I will get out there soon for a weekday session.
I guess when they get a few more starters they will have to run groups so for now it is great value.
Even when they do run groups they say it will be like this:
"Duration: approx. 8 Hours (8:00 am arrival for check in, briefing and scrutineering, 9:00 am sessions begin, 4:30 pm Event Finishes).

Format: There will be a max of 6 Groups, with a max of 15 drivers per group. with groups not exceeding 15 vehicles

Session Length: 15 Minute sessions, which will be ran throughout the day (6 sessions per hour). Groups will be rotated through the sessions.


I've been watching their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/614269742262778/
and it looks like you get some help from Ian Luff and others.
From the website:
"Experienced Driver Trainers are also on hand to offer some pointers and make sure the day flows smoothly!"