(Vic Club) - NO FRILLS challenging run to Kinglake Nov 25

[Grumpy]

I can't tell a lie. It was me that sent the following to the president.

Murray,

I have had an MX5 as a daily driver for almost 2 years, and have entered various events, with the Mini Car Club, of which I am a member. I recently joined the MX5 club as I intend to compete in club events against other MX5's, rather than be an \"outsider\" in another club.

I'm 56 years old, and at the risk of sounding like a \"grumpy old bastard\", I felt I must share my comments.

My wife and I had the \"pleasure\" of attending a club run this morning, and must admit, we were not ready for what transpired.
We had a briefing and were handed the standard convoy rules, and being new to the club, thought this was great, and set of for what we thought would be a pleasant drive through the hills.
After 15 minutes, we found some of the rules should be deleted or altered.
1. All road rules are to be stringently followed. DELETE Substitute: All road laws to be disobeyed at every opportunity.

2. All other road users are to be extended every courtesy at all times.

3. Indicate early; ie: 30 metres before changing lane or direction.

4. The leader is not to be passed at any time. NOT SURE, COULD'NT CATCH HIM

5. No passing while you're in convoy (except as outlined in 6, below). DELETE

6. At traffic lights, use more than one lane if available to allow more of our cars to get through on each sequence.
Once through the lights, assume a position back in the convoy. You may change your position in the convoy at this time if you wish (indicate your intentions clearly to anyone you're overtaking in the convoy).



7. Keep a 2-3 second safety margin between all cars; ie: your required braking distance at 100km/h. REFER COMMENTS ITEM 4

8. This one's important for keeping the convoy together: Keep the car behind you in sight at all times; ie: don't race off and leave them behind and, when turning, wait at the intersection until the car behind you has taken your place. DELETE

9. The run organiser may use his/her discretion to break the convoy into smaller groups to enable better management of a large group of cars.

10. The run organiser will nominate at least one car to follow the convoy and ensure no-one is left behind. DELETE, Maybe it did happen. Not sure.

The constitution of the club states:
The purposes of the incorporated association (the \"Club\") are:

1. to encourage the coming together of owners and drivers (and their respective families and friends) of Mazda MX-5 automobiles (the \"Car\") by actively promoting membership of the Club to all who own and/or drive the Car;

2. to promote and further the practical, sporting and social aspects of motoring within the membership of the Club and, where necessary or desirable, to join with other persons, clubs or associations in Australia and overseas for those purposes;

3. to encourage social interaction between, and participation by, members and generally to afford to them all the usual privileges and advantages of membership of the Club; and to encourage courtesy, good driving and safety on the roads of Australia.


During the run, we found if the speed limit was 60, 75 to 80k was required just to keep other cars in sight, an 80k limit really meant 100 minimum, and 100k was, well we really don't know what it was, as we would not try to keep up. One comment was heard at the coffee stop from a driver about doing 170 outside of Healesville though.

Yes the cars are great to drive on twisty roads, and I admit I like to do it as well, but always within the posted speed limit. I save my speeding for the various sprints, hillclimbs and motorkhanas I have entered, and will enter next year.

[Grumpy]

Call me whatever names you like, but I cannot believe the reputation of the MX5 club, or any other car club for that matter, is helped by the sight of a number of MX5's, \"hooning\" throught the back roads of Melbourne's outer suburbs, well over the posted speed limits early on a Sunday morning.

Is this how we encourage good driving and safety ??????

If by writing these comments I offend anyone in the club, I'm not sorry. I think there is much to be gained by car clubs showing the general public they are responsible, and that they do not condone speeding or dangerous driving on public roads. We need to set a good example for the young drivers in the community also.

Regards,
Bob.

Okibi is dead right. The legal implications for the club if anything goes wrong at one of these runs does not bare thinking about. I for one would not like to see any of the commitee in court.

And Al, just for the record, yes I know the MX5 goes around corners really great, even overtakes slow porsche drivers at philip island, but I am pretty sure my speedo is not broken.
See you next time I need some spares.

[fredbareoz]

Grumps
Do you understand what the other people are saying here?
They enjoy a challenging run, one that is fits between the usual first sunday of the month run and full on racing at a circuit.
First up i do acknowledge comments from Okibi and agree with what he says. BUT, there comes a time when someone has to take responsibility for their actions. And if they over cook thinks whilst driving, then its their own fault.
The comments about not being able to catch the leader (myself) are a joke. I kept to the speed limits all the way from the start point and the build up areas. Perhaps you got caught at the traffic lights?
Also the corners on the first stretch of road running behind Eltham are very tight, there is no way that i am going to go too crazy through that stretch of road. A road that was used on the previous Sunday club run and at the same pace.
The same for the rest of the run, I am very wary of Myers Creek road and kept a lot back in reserve. In fact i held up other drivers on the run keeping speeds down, that might not go with your accusations but that is the truth.
The offender for the high speed drove another type of car and was waved through just out of St Andrews, I never saw him till he waited for us in Kinglake and then left us again further down the road.
he can take responsibilty for his own driving, he wasn't driving an MX5 and he was too far in front of us to even be considered to be in our convoy.
As far as i am concerned he wasn't with us and there was no way he could be associated with the club.
I cant believe that you can attend a run that when advertised has a punk theme and is also promoted as a CHALLENGING run and then have the nerve to complain about it.
Have you seen the other peoples comments on here? These are the people that have asked for these runs. They get up at 6.00 am to do them because no one else caters for them.
In fact our club is loosing people to another group because we dont cater to their wants.
Now maybe I should have spelt out more CLEARLY at the start of the run what the nature of it was and i apologise for not doing that. I should never take things for granted.
That said i do recall saying VERY clearly that the run will not be held up, there will be no radio contact between cars and that people will be required to find their own way using the basic notes provided. I did in fact stop 3 times to regroup and had several people complaining about some one, that would not pull over and let people through who were confident to travel at a quicker pace.
I had no expectation of anyone to wait at corners for slower cars. No need to have a car to follow as tail end charlie, there were no radios, so no contact could be given, again, use the notes and make your own way there.
NOW, the courteous thing to do and one that is expected when on a run follows. \"Dont hold up people behind you, pull over and let the quicker people through\" is what i remember.
There is a night time Reefton run on in January. I expect a large turn out for it, It will have run notes and radio contact, and it will run it in a similar vein.
Thanks for your feedback to the president, pity you could not talk to me about your concerns at the coffee stop to my face and before you sped off in the distance while taking your car to the redline in first gear.
Its times like these that make me wonder why i bother spending my time and money to go out and organise events and make me question why i am on the committee.
Like Fatty said, if its a problem, why even show up for the run?

[Grumpy]

Al,
My main concern is what happens to the club if some one \"overcooks it\" and hits something or some one ??
As for the comment about letting faster drivers through, why pass out convoy rules that state the exact opposite ??
We will agree to disagree.
I have said my bit and if I am seen to be a dill, so be it !!! I have had a number of PM's thanking me for my comments though.

My only concern is the clubs reputation.

[RRdstr]

Its times like these that make me wonder why i bother spending my time and money to go out and organise events and make me question why i am on the committee.

Having so questioned Al, I hope you come to the conclusion that many of us really do appreciated the time , effort and expense you and Roady put in to organising and leading this type of run. Personally, your runs have been the highlights of my MX5 year, and I'm looking forward to the next.

[Fatty]

al's runs are always good. i agree with RRdstr they are a highlight of the club calendar for me.

the club is trying to cater to different wants and needs so it is a difficult task to keep everyone happy.... if you turned up to this run then you either heard about it via the club, or via this forum. in either case, it was made clear what sort of run it would be. in fact, in the last club magazine (the one that advertised this run) the prez made it very very clear about this issue in his column. so i'm a little surprised at grumpy's comment that he and his wife turned up for \" what we thought would be a pleasant drive through the hills. \" i don't see how it could have been spelt out any clearer that this would NOT be a \"picnic\" style run. i'm not dismissing grumpy's concerns (they are valid and i respect that he is trying to look out for the best interests of the club), i'm just confused as to why he even showed up for this run.

now, i was not present, so i don't know what actually transpired. it seems there are conflicting reports on whether there were actually any mx5's doing the wrong thing. i guess i'm just a bit disappointed that runs of this nature may be struck from the calendar in future. i enjoy a good spirited drive every now and then, so hopefully we can work out a way to keep everybody happy. it's a difficult task and i do not envy the committee, it must be a tough gig.

it would be a shame if my future involvement with the club was limited to motorsport events only, i do enjoy the occasional social type outing but it would get a bit boring if that was the only thing on offer.....

[dimplebutt73]

I have just stumbled across this thread and my jaw has hit the ground so here it is from the rear gunner perspective!!

I occasionally choose to drive in my on vehicle in areas away from the general public at safe controlled speeds well within the abilities of myself and my car.
This may or not be the posted speed limit. At times it is over the posted limit, at other times well under the posted limit. A good driver always keeps well within limits determined by visibility, nature of the road, road users, run off areas and most importantly knowledge of the road. The exact reason why it could be argued that it is safer doing 200km/h down the Hume HWY than it would be to do 60km/h through a shopping strip or even 40km/h through a school zone. The point is that whilst in any area where the club is seen and represented road rules are adhered to and especially in all built up areas. In other areas, some club members choose to drive in a spirited but NOT a dangerous manner.

In no stage during the run until after St Andrews when I left to go and have my own run AWAY from the main group were any road rules ignored or deleted. The group was merely separated by traffic lights etc etc. The thing is you never personally actually visualised the cars you claim were driving recklessly so how can such claims be made?? At the start we were perhaps accelerating faster or whatever to leave the gap in-between cars and hence the reason you couldn't see the lead driver/vehicle.

As a previous committee member and passionate supporter of the MX5 club I must take to task the comments made about this run as I was directly behind the organiser for most of the event and know exactly the speeds and manner of the driving that were undertaken. My choosing to leave the club for my 'spirited' section of the drive was done for the exact reason you complain of and that was to distance myself from the group in order not to tarnish the reputation of the club. This is also why the lead car waved me through. If you think however that at anytime I would risk the lives of others on the road then you couldn't be more wrong. At all times road safety is number one. Hence the reason you will see me only testing the LIMITS of my vehicle on a race track. If occasionally I drive to 50% of my cars limits on a deserted piece of road in a safe manner then what is the problem?? If that means that at some times the traveled speed is above the posted speed then that is my decision. Speed limits are designed to the lowest common denominator and that is why if I was driving an SUV down many a winding Rd I would be WELL under the limit but a much more capable car on semi slick high grip tyres with set up suspension and track pads can drive at 3 times the speed of the SUV and yet be much 'safer'. And as for stopping distances etc, would probably stop from 100km/h faster than such said SUV traveling at 50km/h!! All factors that can be argued to the cows come home depending on how much of the 'speed kills' media sensationalism has been swallowed.

That said, it is truly a shame that you feel the need to air complaints of this nature in such a public forum which may be misconstrued by others who weren't at the event and cast a shadow over the best car club I have been involved in and a dedicated group of enthusiasts who spend hundreds of hours of their own time each month trying to appease the masses.

I truly hope that in future you can reassess your feelings towards the true nature of the club and enjoy the many varied events that the club has to offer. Perhaps a 12 month stint on the committee would give you an in depth understanding of how hard it is to please everybody and most importantly address any changes that you feel the club may view in the future. At the very least attending one of the committee meetings with your suggestions may be appropriate. I applaud you for your initiative in getting out on the track and learning to drive to the limits of your vehicles abilities in the safe confines of a closed circuit and look forward to seeing you at such events with the club in the future. Hopefully you'll be smiling and most importantly still feel a part of the club.

You know who.

[John Hewitt]

Having dríven with the club many times in the past, as well as with fellow members privately; safety is always paramount. The leaders of the runs are dedicated to providing the best possible activities for the participants. Never have I met a more dedicated group of VOLUNTEERS! The reputation of the MX5 club is one of the best around. Check out it's list of annual offerings and you'll be hard pressed to find a more involved group of enthusiasts.

Complaining about leadership should only be done when one is ready to become a leader.