Selene - Nev's NB SE

[Nevyn72]

I think you've talked/reasoned yourself into the 2-point brace and there are many who believe that the 3rd mounting point doesn't contribute much anyway, some even doubt the effect of the brace at all, so go for the 2-point brace with the master brake cylinder stopper.

As for common sense, that goes out the door when you're passionate about something - I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to this.

You know, you're right on both counts there mate!

Ordered a 2nd hand Carbing, polished, 2-way with brake stopper from Rupewrecht yesterday......

[Nevyn72]

The tyres are 40 profile all round but the fronts are a brand I've never heard of before, 'Trocmok'... Seem to grip ok though!

Haven't heard of that brand either, just thought that the wheel gap didn't look anywhere as pronounced as it was on my car when I got it, yours looks far better!

A quick follow-up on this one, I measured the ride height on a flat surface (in the garage) and it's, from hub centre to wheel arch;
Front: 325mm
Rear: 350mm

The recommended difference is rear 12.5mm higher than the front, correct?

[Nevyn72]

So, I've been driving the little beastie around a fair bit lately, getting to know the girl, visiting friends (as you do at this time of year), not really showing off the new toy...... MUCH!

I have a question regarding the handling.
The car is still pretty much stock at this time and I'm finding that there's a tendency for the front end to 'shake' quite noticeably on a trailing throttle and particularly over, shall we say, less smooth surfaces. Is this normal?

I was expecting a certain level of harshness with the factory suspension and 17" rims with 40 profile tyres but not sure if there's something else going on.

The car will be going in for it's 100K service early in the new year, should I be getting them to look for anything in particular?
I already plan for them to have a good look around all the suspension bushes, fittings, etc anyway, should they focus on something specific?

I've read about 'cowl shake' occasionally, is this what I'm experiencing?
The fix is supposedly fitting 'frog type' braces under the front fenders.... Does this work? How hard are they to fit?

Down the track the plan is to replace the factory suspension with aftermarket coilovers but want to hold off until I finish adding bits that will 'stiffen' the body.
The idea is the retain the factory 17" rims and close to factory ride height, will the coilovers be able to 'dial out' some of the harshness?
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.
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Don't mind me, so full of questions.... Sometime soon I might even start bolting bits to the car!


PS> EDIT: Yes, I know 15" rims will improve the ride but I really like the factory rims and want to retain them if at all possible....

[Lokiel]

Rear should be 0.5" higher than the front, that's the way MAZDA designed the car to handle best.

The SE shocks are quite stiff and combined with the heavy factory "wagon wheels", you're going to feel every bump and rattle the hell out of your car. Coilovers will help a bit but until you "see the light" and upgrade the factory "wagon wheels" you'll get noticeable cowl shake when hitting bumps.

Frog Arms do help too - see http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=332166&highlight=frog+arms for what is probably the best thread regarding Boss Frog Frog Arms. I added my own $0.02 there too and created a "NB Front Fender removal" thread too since I couldn't find this info anywhere at the time (at least none with any photos - and photos are good!): http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=402640&highlight=boss+frog+arms

IMO, after the MX5 Plus roll bar, the Frog Arms provided the 2nd-best/noticeable stiffening improvement and turn-in felt sharper.

Also, regarding the 17" rims, I suggest you check out the MSM rim's thread from start to finish; notice how initially guys were switching to other 17" rims but as the thread evolves, 16" and 15" rims are preferred - this should tell you something: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,16546.0.html

[Nevyn72]

I hear what you're saying Loki, but as you've probably gathered by now, I can be a stubborn bugger on occasion!

For me, this journey is 50% performance, 50% aesthetic..... and those 'Wagon Wheels' are an important part of the style I'm ultimately after.
Bottom line, I just don't like the look of smaller, or for that matter, any other rim (I've been through the whole 'show us your rims' thread and nothing grabbed me...). If push came to shove, I suppose I'd be looking at 16" options but I'll worry about that later.

So I'm going to try every tired & tested technique for improving the handling characteristics before changing the rims. If that ends up not being enough then the rims will be the last change, ultimately there should be no loss as everything would probably be done anyway it's just the order that might be little different.....
The planned order of mods is;
1) TB rollbar
2) fender braces
3) Coilovers
4) something else or rims

Rear should be 0.5" higher than the front, that's the way MAZDA designed the car to handle best.

Thanks for the confirmation, it's what I thought.

[KevGoat]

If push came to shove, I suppose I'd be looking at 16" options but I'll worry about that later.

My NB8A has a bad shake between 55-60kph with the soft top up or down. Any tyre pressure above 29psi is almost unbearable. Feels like a wheel's coming off! Thought maybe a badly balanced wheel or a wheel bearing or bent rim. But if I put my hardtop on and she's smooth as ..... I'm on 16" NB8B wheels and have thought about 15's but like you I just like the way mine looks too much ...

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk

[Lokiel]

KevGoat, like most people, I actually think that 16" rims look best on NBs - the 15" rims took quite a while to grow on me after seeing my car with 17" rims for so long but now 17" rims on an NA/NB just look comical and "try-hard" to me.

If the SE came with light SE-specific 16" rims, I'd have kept them for DD.

The choice for many of upgrading the 17" rims to 15" rims instead of 16" rims is usually decided based on a larger tyre choice for 15" rims and because 15" tyres are cheaper - if you have to buy rims AND tyres, it makes more sense to go for 15" rims; if you already have decent 16" rims the choice isn't as clear-cut since you can offset the extra cost of the tyres with the fact that you don't need to buy new rims.

Here's the mazda-speed.com thread regarding 17" rims vs 15" rims, it's worth reading the attached links: http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,29258.0.html

yenadar summed it up beautifully I thought:

"Far cheaper rubber, more comfortable ride, lower unsprung rolling mass to accelerate and stop, what weight is there is more concentrated toward the middle of the car for a lower polar moment of inertial, plus a few other reasons that I don't think I'll air here, for fear of sounding like an ignorant know-it-all (as in, I think i know, but will probably get something wrong)."

Sorry for going on about 17" rims, just trying to convince you to put them on the "ToDo" list since they a genuine upgrade in ride and handling. If you ever get the chance, try and borrow a set of 15" rims for a few days to feel the difference on your car (I've offered my track 6UL wheels to Crapweasel to do this but he's declined since he too likes the look of the OEM "Wagon Wheels" - I think he's just worried that it will convince him that he needs to upgrade the rims ).

[Crapweasel]

As far as 17"s go, the Racing Hart is actually a relatively light wheel.

I'm firmly with Nev on this one, the SE wheel "makes" the car in my opinion, it lends a little hint that something is special about this car imo, and I've also been through the "show us your wheels" threads on five MX forums and still haven't seen anything I liked.

I've also looked at other aftermarket wheels, and haven't seen anything that looks as good to me.

Look at the 458 Italia, would it look better with a set of 16" instead of the stock 20", regardless of handling?

Aesthetics are a major part of my car to me, and approaching 5 years of SE ownership, I still look at my car and go "damn that's a good looking car!".

[Nevyn72]

As far as 17"s go, the Racing Hart is actually a relatively light wheel.

I'm firmly with Nev on this one, the SE wheel "makes" the car in my opinion, it lends a little hint that something is special about this car imo, and I've also been through the "show us your wheels" threads on five MX forums and still haven't seen anything I liked.

I've also looked at other aftermarket wheels, and haven't seen anything that looks as good to me.

Look at the 458 Italia, would it look better with a set of 16" instead of the stock 20", regardless of handling?

Aesthetics are a major part of my car to me, and approaching 5 years of SE ownership, I still look at my car and go "damn that's a good looking car!".

YO!..... Hi five Bro!

Looks like my at least forum doppelganger understands where I'm coming from!

[Lokiel]

:
YO!..... Hi five Bro!
:

Don't you mean "Bro-fist"

[Nevyn72]

:
YO!..... Hi five Bro!
:

Don't you mean "Bro-fist"

Doh!.... *Slap*

What was I thinking?!

[Nevyn72]

For me, this journey is 50% performance, 50% aesthetic..... and those 'Wagon Wheels' are an important part of the style I'm ultimately after.
Bottom line, I just don't like the look of smaller, or for that matter, any other rim (I've been through the whole 'show us your rims' thread and nothing grabbed me...). If push came to shove, I suppose I'd be looking at 16" options but I'll worry about that later.

And after having said all that I go and stumble across this image of the Euphonic Special Edition from Europe...... 16" x 6.5J rims.





They're factory rims so probably not particularly light and being only 6.5 inches wide couldn't take a very wide tyre, say 205 at the max?
So the only real benefit would be the taller side wall?

At least it's a style that I don't mind.....

[Lokiel]

Those rims also came standard on the Australian 2002 Titanium edition (in the US, this was called the "Special Edition"/"SE" which leads to confusion with our "SE", which is called a "MAZDASPEED Miata"/"MSM" in the US).



See http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_55015/title_Titanium-Adds-Luxury-to-Mazda-MX5/newsarticle.html

They do come up for sale from time to time (eg. http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=29679)


If they came as 7" rims, I'd have kept them for DD too although 6.5" with 195's would be fine on unmodified SE/MSMs based on '95MSM's comment at http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/index.php/topic,29258.0.html:

"I've deviated a couple of times over the years, but I keep coming back to 195x55x15s for daily use. There have been times when various 50 series tires were available for $75 less per set, but I love the 55s, going back about 15 years."

- he knows his $hit (the first guy to put an SE/MSM engine in an NA and father of the "'95MSM Boost Gauge Mod").

[Nevyn72]

Thanks for the links mate..... Yikes! 8.2kg per rim.... That's even heavier than the Racingharts!

[Nevyn72]

Hmmmm..... Same manufacturer.... Similar style..... Both 16" & 15" available......

http://www.enkei.com/pf01.shtml#

What offset do we need for the MX5?