Starter motor? Or ...?

[greenMachine]

SE won't start. Battery has been on trickle charger, which shows all OK, battery showing 12.something volts on the multimeter. Car has been sitting for some couple/three months.

On the key, everything lights up, but turning to start the lights go dim, and the starter goes urg urg, not vroom ... if you know what I mean. Lights on high beam, horn works pretty good, maybe not 100% only 90% (closest I can come to a load test). The starter has not exhibited any symptoms to date.

I guess the thing to do is pull the battery and get it load tested at a local workshop, which is my next step.

In the meantime, any wisdom out there?

[The American]

Can you test with some jumper leads to see if that provides enough to get it moving?

[bruce]

Nahh, the car's boogered. I'll take it off your hands for a lazy tenner, will send tow truck.

(I remember when our paint-fumed, bird loving forum member said he'd give his SE away if he repainted it again. I took him up on that offer when he re-did the paint and he got mighty upset. I think he might have gone and choked a budgie!)

[greenMachine]

Nahh, the car's boogered. I'll take it off your hands for a lazy tenner, will send tow truck.

Bruce, you need the tenner more than I do, but I appreciate your generousity!

Can you test with some jumper leads to see if that provides enough to get it moving?

That had been the plan, but the jumper leads had gone walkabout. I took it down to be load tested yesterday, and the result was poor but could have been a problem with the tester.

However this morning the jumper leads have been found, so I need to get the battery back in the car and hook up another battery and give that a go. That should - hopefully - point to the culprit.

[greenMachine]

Battery is cactus. Started with the aid of a set of jumper leads, ran it for a while after disconnecting the jumpers, shut down and then restarted ok. I'll try it in the morning, I think that will be a bit too much to ask, but you never know ...

I've been researching batteries, looking for something a bit bigger than the PC680 as maybe I am asking a bit too much of it, at 170CCA. Looked at the Fullriver HC20, it has more grunt (220 vs 170 CCA) but physically virtually the same size. The HC 35 gets a wrap in one of the battery threads here, lots of CCAs there!

In the course of that research I have seen a reference to not leaving the AGM batteries on a trickle charger for extended periods*. Mine was on for around 3 months, maybe a bit less, and while the battery seemed healthy enough when I last started the car. after being on the charger for that period the battery now seems due for replacement. Coincidence? Has anyone else seen a similar warning for AGMs, or experienced something similar? Charger is a C-Tech, cost me $70+, has a 'maintenance' function.



* "it performs poorly when repeatedly taken down to deep depths of discharge or if they are placed on a continuous trickle charge,"

[rascal]

In the course of that research I have seen a reference to not leaving the AGM batteries on a trickle charger for extended periods*. Mine was on for around 3 months, maybe a bit less, and while the battery seemed healthy enough when I last started the car. after being on the charger for that period the battery now seems due for replacement. Coincidence? Has anyone else seen a similar warning for AGMs, or experienced something similar? Charger is a C-Tech, cost me $70+, has a 'maintenance' function.



* "it performs poorly when repeatedly taken down to deep depths of discharge or if they are placed on a continuous trickle charge,"

I fitted a motorcycle battery to mine at end of 2014.
this one. https://www.batteryworld.com.au/YTZ14SY ... le-Battery

230CCA, 11.2Ahr, 3.9kg AGM style.

I wouldn't use it for a daily driver as its a little small for the job but worked perfectly fine to start the car 15 or 20 times in a day as per a normal track day usage.
Since it was small, it needed to be fully charged to start the car from cold when the car took a few goes to fire, (and one 1deg Wakefield morning it didnt make it and I had to jump it) so I made sure it ALWAYS was on the trickle charger between events. ie as soon as I got home from track and unloaded car it was on the trickle, until the morning I left for the next one.

So it would be on the charger 99% of its life, and sometimes 3 months straight. Never had an issue with it losing or not holding charge and still works perfectly now nearly 7 years on. (and I've even flattened it prob a handful of times over that duration due to various reasons)

My trickle charger is also a CTek (MXS 5.0) that has an AGM function on it, which I use. Not sure if this make the difference or not, but the proof appears to be in the pudding..

[greenMachine]

Thanks rascal, that's interesting.

I started the car again this morning, no jumper, it didn't sound all that strong but started after a couple/three goes - so the battery still has some life it seems. I've left it running for 10 or 15 minutes at 2-3k rpm to give the battery a shot in the arm, and I'll try it again tomorrow.

I think my charger is the same model, it has an AGM function which as I recall is on as per the indicator light. In which case maybe the issue I have experienced is not related to trickle charging. At the moment the charger is not connected, everything is just sitting there and now I will put things back in place properly, reconnect the charger and play with it a bit.

I hear you about racing car cold starts. My old racecar used to be a b@st@rd to start at Wakefield, aggravated by living in the open here at home with overnights down to -7* or so in winter. Initially it ran an even smaller Odessy but I upgraded to the PC680 after a similar experience at Wakefield. The SE now lives in a garage, so the battery will have an easier life - having lasted several years living in the open, and working OK, 170CCA seems adequate but the crunch comes when staying away in cold weather and no access to charging.

I think a new battery is in my future, but maybe I have a little more thinking and searching time that I imagined last night.

[RS2000]

I've had a Fullriver HC20 in my race NB8A for 2.5 years. Not a problem with it, & sometimes the car doesn't get started for weeks & weeks.
Of course the ignition isolation switch is turned to off. I only charge the day before an event, with a Ctek 4.0 on AGM setting.

[rascal]

Also GM, regarding your existing battery, the Ctek has a Recondition function which might be worth trying as it actually works quite well.

I (thought I) killed my battery in my tow car a few years ago, so bought a new one.
Thought I'd give the recond function a go on the old battery given nothing to lose, and to my surprise it worked.

Before battery was showing 8v, which is dead as a dodo, and normally anything that low wont recover.
I put the recond on and left it for a few days, Then took it off left it for a day and then did recond again for another few days, and afterwards it came back to life. holding 12.6v!, and started the car several times no problems.
I ended up moving it to the trailer to run the internal lights, and was still running fine there a few years later without issue when I sold the trailer last month.

[CrazyRacer]

I've fitted a SSB Lithium PowerSports battery to the race car. Weighs about 1kg and seems to hold charge when not in use much better than a regular battery.

It hasn't been used in anger yet, but has done plenty of cranking while I've been sorting out the new ECU. If it was for a road car I'd get one a little bigger though.

Make sure you stay away from SuperCharge batteries. I've had 3 different models fail in 3 different cars. Only saving grace is their long warranty which meant all of them were replaced for free.

[greenMachine]

Thanks guys. It started unaided again yesterday, still a little down on grunt I think. I've downloaded the C-tek manual and I'll reconnect it today. Doing a 'recondition' seems like a good idea, I might start out with that.

CR, if the Odyssy needs replacing, it will be with an AGM Fullriver, probably the HC20 because that has a bit more grunt than the PC680, and it will easily fit the PC680 mount, but that is not imminent - probably autumn next year.

[greenMachine]

Finally replaced the Odyssy with a HC20 Fullriver, direct replacement for the PC680, just on $200.

The battery place told me that the AGM batteries don't like to be run flat, and that happened at least one to mine. Let's see how this one goes.

[StillIC]

No lead acid battery likes to be run flat.

I went to a Lithiumax lithium-ion battery, some years ago (2017?), and for $400 and something dollars I expect it will last more than twice as long as a lead acid and saves 9.5 kg to boot (11 kg to 1.5 kg)!