recommend me a pair of speaker for NB8B

[OHPLEZ]

yeh it is
needs a wash when i get it back lol
been sitting in ma garage for 2months n been @ danials for 1month

[muzzy66]

thanks Jeo. I went to Metrosound the other day in Artarmon and listened to their AVI range. The guys said they are as good, and even sound better than the JM lab Utopia...

I'd be very surprised if that were true....the current Focal Utopia range uses the Be (Beryllium) tweeter, and as far as car audio goes Focal's mids are up there with the absolute best.

The Utopia's range from around $2,000 for the most basic active set (no crossovers) up to around $7,000 for the top 3-way set with crossblock. They are one of the best car speakers you'll find anywhere, and even the next range below (K2P) are fantastic speakers that destroy many far more expensive speakers.

In some pretty thorough back to back testing with about 6 or 7 different sets of speakers ranging from $800 to around $2,000, I found the Focal was the most musically accurate speaker of the lot despite being the cheapest. Oz Matrix also proved very impressive, with Morel's flagship Supremo set being next best.

Be weary of what stores tell you - 9 times out of 10 they either have no clue, or are trying to push a particular product.

Today I went to Doran Pro Audio in Bankstown and they recommended me a pair of 8" Nertz front split. They said they are no 1 in Europe and America. Anyone heard this brand before or have any experience? The shop is undergoing renovation so no demo...

Number one in Europe and America how? Number one selling, number one in quality? Either way, I'd be surprised if that were true.

Hertz HSK165 is a very nice component set for it's price range ($300-$400), and in that price range it's one of the better speaker sets out there as an all-rounder. They have very strong midbass performance, quite good midrange, and above average highs.

As for 8" splits, I wouldn't go there. 8" woofers have an obvious advantage over 6.5" woofers in the lower frequencies, providing significantly better midbass...however you sacrifice a LOT of midrange performance to get that. Given that midrange is generally considered to be the most critical part of the audible frequency range that's probably not a good thing.

With speakers in the doors, you're at close to 90 degrees off axis from the listening position and the result is that even a 6.5" speaker will lose a lot if detail in the upper midrange (1.5khz - 3khz). Car speaker sets tend to typically use crossover points up around 3khz/2.5khz because any lower puts too much strain on tweeters, and the result is a hole loss if information in between the mid's roll off point (around 1.5khz) and the tweeters pick-up point (around 2.5k/3k).

Going with an 8" woofer will make this situation far worse again - instead of losing detail from 1.5k upwards, you'll lose information from 1khz upwards (maybe even a little lower). No tweeter I'm aware of on earth can handle a 1khz crossover point to you are guaranteed a loss of detail. Even the absolute best 8" woofers on the planet will stuggle to play beyond 1.5khz on axis...let alone off axis.

In summary, there is a reason why people tend to use 6.5" speakers in car installs - they don't excel in any one area (average midrange, average midbass), but they also don't suck at anything either. They are a good 'all round' ballance, and in a 2-way system a 5.25" or 6.5" speaker are the only sizes that really make sense.

I highly recommend speaking to Marty at FHRX Studios - the website may not look flash, but the work he does is absolutely second to none. He's got years (if not decades) of experience, he has tons of knowledge, he has probably the widest range of brands and products in all of NSW, and I've never met a business person who cares as much about customers and work as he doors.

I generally do all of my own install work these days, but if I needed install work done he is the only installer in NSW I would trust (exception being one or two guys who I think are no longer in the business).

you can fit 6.5 n up to 6-9z in a NB

DEFINATELY don't use 6x9's. They are are a piss-poor solution to every problem and the only time they have any use is if you have a $150 budget for a single speaker that does everything. They are the definition of mediocre.

[OHPLEZ]

muzzy66 EFINATELY don't use 6x9's. They are are a piss-poor solution to every problem and the only time they have any use is if you have a $150 budget for a single speaker that does everything. They are the definition of mediocre.

yeh but in saying that depends on the user & there budget & if they just want LOUD
thats why i did say 6-9 for a all round sound, the quality of course isnt great at all

id would say JL ZR650-CSi
have a all round peachy sound clear & spot on every note

i must say though you do know you in's & out's muzzy66
nice to see others that enjoy there A/V

[Jeo]

I'd be very surprised if that were true....the current Focal Utopia range uses the Be (Beryllium) tweeter, and as far as car audio goes Focal's mids are up there with the absolute best.

The Utopia's range from around $2,000 for the most basic active set (no crossovers) up to around $7,000 for the top 3-way set with crossblock. They are one of the best car speakers you'll find anywhere, and even the next range below (K2P) are fantastic speakers that destroy many far more expensive speakers.

In some pretty thorough back to back testing with about 6 or 7 different sets of speakers ranging from $800 to around $2,000, I found the Focal was the most musically accurate speaker of the lot despite being the cheapest. Oz Matrix also proved very impressive, with Morel's flagship Supremo set being next best.

Be weary of what stores tell you - 9 times out of 10 they either have no clue, or are trying to push a particular product.

I had the one and only Focal dealer in Canberra try to sell me an assortment of their $500-$900 a pair speakers and to be quite frank, they sucked compared to the similarly priced Hertz and AVI's I was considering.
I'm quite sure that the Utopias are every bit the bucket of awesome they are made out to be, but I have always thought that the rest of the Focal range was overpriced.

DEFINATELY don't use 6x9's. They are are a piss-poor solution to every problem and the only time they have any use is if you have a $150 budget for a single speaker that does everything. They are the definition of mediocre.

Couldn't agree with you more there.

Edit...

yeh but in saying that depends on the user & there budget & if they just want LOUD
thats why i did say 6-9 for a all round sound, the quality of course isnt great at all

Yeah sorry mate, totally disagree there. 6x9 are not for all round sound, they are a cheap way to get overpowering bass. If thats what you want and only have $150 to spend, then by all means.

However, $150 spent on a set of 6.5 splits will get you a far better all rounder.

[OHPLEZ]

yeh i know i agree with that but you know how some ppl just want loud & bass
whitch isnt the best thing as the human ear can only take so much lol
personly im runnying my JL audio's 6.5 whitch i wouldnt give up for anything
ive had them threw my old car (honda prelude)now in my NB

[muzzy66]

yeh but in saying that depends on the user & there budget & if they just want LOUD
thats why i did say 6-9 for a all round sound, the quality of course isnt great at all

It's true that 6x's do somewhat have their place...but there are only very specific circumstances where they are really useful at all.

That situation is basically one where a person is absolutely restricted to around $300 for an entire system, and they want at least some degree of bass. In a situation like this, running an amp really isn't an option because it will push the system out of budget, and therefore running a sub is also not an option.

A pair of $100 6x9's will sound pretty poor as far as sound quality goes, but then so would a pair of $100 6" coaxials so in this case you may as well stick with the evil 6x9's.

In absolutely ANY other circumstances, 6x9's are essentially a waste of time.

i must say though you do know you in's & out's muzzy66

I try

Hehe seriously though, audio is my biggest hobby and one of my great passions. I've built myself a few competition SQ systems over the years and did quite a bit of competing with my old Laser at state and national events, but since I've gotten the MX-5 I've been too busy with uni (final year now) and haven't had the time to either properly finish my install or attend competitions. All of the recent systems have been completely custom, so no factory 'splits' so to speak.

I'll definately be happy to get back into it though, once the system in the 5' is completely finished. It's not your 'typical' car audio gear (actually, it's not car audio gear at all) but the components are some of the best available anywhere. Once installed and tuned, it'll be interesting to see how it compares against some of the new SQ cars out there

I've been moving a little into home audio as well since then - I've just finished designing and building my own custom bookshelf speaker and sub from scratch (for use in my home theatre system) and also have another one or two design plans on the drawing board for another bookshelf set for my hifi system in my room. It's a whole new world there really, because there is so much extra time and research put into appropriate cabinet design, custom crossover design, appropriate speaker drivers, most suitable crossover points, etc.
------

I had the one and only Focal dealer in Canberra try to sell me an assortment of their $500-$900 a pair speakers and to be quite frank, they sucked compared to the similarly priced Hertz and AVI's I was considering.

I'm quite sure that the Utopias are every bit the bucket of awesome they are made out to be, but I have always thought that the rest of the Focal range was overpriced.

Which model were they, and how did you listen to them? Remember that actual setup of the speakers at the time of listening can influence the sound just as much as the speakers themselves (more, even).

I've never listened to the Hertz in that price range, but I have heard the absolutely flagship range (Mille) back to back against Focal 165K2P in a controlled environment (all was identical, and only the speakers were changed) and in my humble opinion the Focal's were significantly more accurate in the way they presented the sound.

I actually took down notes on all 7 or so speakers I listened to that day - I think for the Hertz I found their midbass to be one of their stronger points, but they had one or two issues in the midrange (nothing major, but noticable) and the tweeters were mediocre for the price point.

The Focal's had the strongest midbass performance (you could hear notes in the 80hz-120hz range that barely existed on the other speakers), they had the most accurate and revealing midrange and the highs - while being their weakest link - were still better then most.

These have however been replaced with a different model now (I think it's K2R or something like that) which dosn't seem to be as nice a speaker as the original. Also, everything I've heard in Focal below the K2P sounded average at best to me, so it's also possible you heard one of the lower ranges.

The Hertz speakers (or at least the high end ones) tend to have more of a dumbed down sound - high frequency roll off in the tweeters and some overemphasis in the midbass and midrange leads to a sound that's not quite accurate enough for my taste.

I like my speakers to be dead accurate, or as close to it as possible. The signal coming out of the speaker should be as faithful as possible to the original singal going into the speaker, and I found the Hertz (along with Dynaudio) just coloured the sound a little too much for my liking.

The better Focal speakers tend towards being deadly accurate compared to most other car speakers out there - that meaning they pretty much take whatever you feed them, and give it back to you. If there is a single flaw in the Focal's, it's the tweeters. They really can't operate effectively below around a 3khz crossover point, and they have a small rise in the frequency respose above 10khz that can cause them to be a little fatiguing (particularly at higher volumes). They aren't as bad as people thing though - kept within their comfort zone, the tweeters still play more neutral then most car tweeters out there, and if you can get them around 15 degrees off axis the high frequency rise is neutralised, and the response becomes almost perfecty linear. Positioned and set up right, the Focal's are an absolute killer speaker, but the limitations of the tweeter make the set very sensitive to installation - install them poorly and they will suffer from it more then most speaker (such as Dyn, Morel, etc) because you throw away a lot of that beautiful midrange performance. Still they used to retail at around $850 for the set, and as far as pure accuracy goes I've yet to hear a car speaker under $2,000 that is better. Actually to be blatantly honest, I'd be interested to do a back to back with the K2P and Utopia and see which sounds better - the Utopia uses a better tweeter (the uber expensive beryllium dome) but as far as the mids go, I wouldn't be surprised if the K2P one is actually nicer.

Oz Audio Matrix 180CS is another very nice speaker - up there with the Focals. Midbass didn't seem quite as solid good as the Focals, but the tweeters are nicer. Midrange is up there with the Focal as well not quite as good probably, but very close. If you love the midrange on the Focal but don't like the tweeter these are a very, very nice speaker for you.

I'll have to hear the midrange Hertz speakers one day, but I'd be surprised if they were a match for the Focals given that the higher range wasn't! Never know though - there are companies out there who's cheaper speakers actually outperform their more expensive ones.

However, $150 spent on a set of 6.5 splits will get you a far better all rounder.

That's true, but it won't give you any real bass at all. For those without the ability to use a sub (or who already have 6x9 holes in their car) it can be an easy (if mediocre) solution.

[Regie]

muzzy66 EFINATELY don't use 6x9's. They are are a piss-poor solution to every problem and the only time they have any use is if you have a $150 budget for a single speaker that does everything. They are the definition of mediocre.

yeh but in saying that depends on the user & there budget & if they just want LOUD
thats why i did say 6-9 for a all round sound, the quality of course isnt great at all

id would say JL ZR650-CSi
have a all round peachy sound clear & spot on every note

i must say though you do know you in's & out's muzzy66
nice to see others that enjoy there A/V

I just installed a set of those JL speakers today (i think thats the part number) they retail for around the $800 mark.. Excellent sound im very inpressed, even though they are only hooked up to the headunit at the moment. Ill be installing an amp over the weekend for the speakers. But yeah im very impressed with the sound

heres a link to the speakers

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_comp ... comp_id=65