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Howdy,

I've had the SE for just over two years, done a few track days and w'end spirited driving, machined the discs but never changed the fluid

When I had the discs machined the ol' mate doing it was reluctant to throw the fluid I'd purchased(Endless RF-650) into it due to it possibly being silicone based and not being at all compatable with the standard brake fluid. Something about silicone based brake fluid turning the left over fluid into a gooey mess!!?? I'm yet to find info either way on the fluid and the guys I got it from are off in Japan....bastards

I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to flushing/changing brake fluids as I've never had to do it before! I know it aint hard but I don't wanna find out the hard way I've fooked up!!

1. What do yall think abouth the gooey mess problem?

2. What equipment is required to flush the old gear out completely to be sure and fill with the new gear. I'll be doin' this on my own so any info on specialised bits 'n' pieces to make the job easier would be appreciated

3. Step-by-step process would leave me forever greatful for you're info

Pics of gear:

ASE05 wrote:1. What do yall think abouth the gooey mess problem?

If it's silicone based fluid, then yes that is true. To use silicone fluid you need to take apart the whole braking system and clean it squeaky clean 1st.

But have a look at the wordings on the Endless fluid. AFAIK if it says "DOT 5", then it's silicone, but if it says "Dot 4 or 5: Ethylene Glycol" then it isn't silicone and you can go for your life.

ASE05 wrote:2. What equipment is required to flush the old gear out completely to be sure and fill with the new gear. I'll be doin' this on my own so any info on specialised bits 'n' pieces to make the job easier would be appreciated

IMHO the best things to get for single-person bleeding is www.speedbleeder.com Also spend a few bucks extra for the bleed bag and bleed tube. It is a non-dodgy way of doing it single-handed, and gets a great firm pedal. That's all you need, except for maybe a 100cc plastic syringe to suck out the sick old fluid from the reservoir (no point contaminating the new fluid with the old stuff).

ASE05 wrote:3. Step-by-step process would leave me forever greatful for you're info

1) Get the speedbleeders
2) Start with the passenger rear. Jack up, remove wheel.
3) Remove std bleed nipple, screw in Speedbleeder.
4) Attach hose and bag to speedbleeder.
5) Suck out old fluid from reservoir, leaving the last 5mm at the bottom, fill with fresh new fluid.
6) Jump in car, give 2 gentle presses on the brake to kill the brake servo vacuum.
7) Back off speedbleeder 1/2 a turn with 8mm spanner.
Jump in car, press brake pedal firmly but gently to the floor. Repeat!
9) For every 10 pumps, jump out and refill the reservoir....if it goes dry and sucks air...start all over again
10) Keep going until you see the old yellow/brown fluid gone and fresh clear fluid running out of the bleed tube. Generally this will be 15-20 pumps.
11) Tighten speedbleeder and repeat with drivers-rear, then pass-front, then drivers-front.
12) Top up reservoir finally and enjoy firm pedal!

link

Babalouie wrote:....1) Get the speedbleeders ...

Don't over tighten, i've got 1/2 a speedbleeder stuck in my rear passenger brake caliper

My asdvice - ABS. They'll do it while you read a magazine for around $50. $60 will see the clutch fluid changed too. Those prices include 'standard' fluid as of 12 months ago.

JBT wrote:My asdvice - ABS. They'll do it while you read a magazine for around $50. $60 will see the clutch fluid changed too. Those prices include 'standard' fluid as of 12 months ago.

Give a man a fish, and he will have a fishy meal....teach a man to fish, and he will have nice solid brakes forever

Babalouie wrote: But have a look at the wordings on the Endless fluid. AFAIK if it says "DOT 5", then it's silicone, but if it says "Dot 4 or 5: Ethylene Glycol" then it isn't silicone and you can go for your life.

Grrrrr! It says DOT 5 on the back but the text before and after that are in Japanese.........

EDIT: If I'd taken my time when checking their website last night I would have found this:

"RF-650 is the top of range brake fluid from Endless in which is widely used in the racing catagories such as: F1, WRC, Paris-Dakar and Gran Tourimo.

It is highly recommended for race meetings for its high boiling point and durability.

Non-silicone based brake fluid."

Thanks to the rest of yall for the input. Looks like I've got some work to do in the morning

Babalouie wrote:[Give a man a fish, and he will have a fishy meal....teach a man to fish, and he will have nice solid brakes forever

Been there and done it too many times over the years Babs. IMHO it's an absolute PITA job and worth every cent of the $60 to get ABS to do a complete flush. Oh, you'll still have nice solid brakes forever too.

JBT wrote:

Babalouie wrote:[Give a man a fish, and he will have a fishy meal....teach a man to fish, and he will have nice solid brakes forever

Been there and done it too many times over the years Babs. IMHO it's an absolute PITA job and worth every cent of the $60 to get ABS to do a complete flush. Oh, you'll still have nice solid brakes forever too.

Nah man, speedbleeders are the key. Once the car is jacked up and on stands it just takes 10mins. If you get the bleed tube and bag, you don't spill a drop either. After each trackday, I used to just give the car a quick bleed, just 3-4 pumps per corner to flush out the heated fluid near the caliper, it's also something nice to do as part of an oil change too.

Even the Luce has speedbleeders

The trick with ABS systems is to turn the ignition on so the ABS is powered up. The second trick, even though Kev's speedbleeders are the shite, is to vacuum bleed them.

My tip on brake fluid - not sure what you pay for fancy JDM fluid, but I'm sure it's a shiteload more than the $30 Motul RBF600 which most of the V8 supercars use. I've had lots of experience with Dot 5s in the NBs and they work very poorly - even the AP 5.1 expensive stuff. The best all rounder is Elf which I'm using now which is the favourite amongst the WRC teams and I can tell you why, it's better than the Castrol SRF which I used to use. Then there's the motul RBF600 which pretty much everyone else uses. Another good one available from brake shops and it's dirt cheap is the Ferodo racing brake fluid. Anyway, just my 3cents worth.

CT wrote:The trick with ABS systems is to turn the ignition on so the ABS is powered up. The second trick, even though Kev's speedbleeders are the shite, is to vacuum bleed them.

My tip on brake fluid - not sure what you pay for fancy JDM fluid, but I'm sure it's a shiteload more than the $30 Motul RBF600 which most of the V8 supercars use. I've had lots of experience with Dot 5s in the NBs and they work very poorly - even the AP 5.1 expensive stuff. The best all rounder is Elf which I'm using now which is the favourite amongst the WRC teams and I can tell you why, it's better than the Castrol SRF which I used to use. Then there's the motul RBF600 which pretty much everyone else uses. Another good one available from brake shops and it's dirt cheap is the Ferodo racing brake fluid. Anyway, just my 3cents worth.

The Jap stuff isn't necessarily more expensive. If you go to the drift workshops you often find, say Trust Racing Dot 4 for $60 for 1L. I haven't tried the Motul 600 but I have tried SRF and AP500 and I find that after a good bleed, performance is about the same. But the JDM stuff seems to let you get away with not bleeding between trackdays a little more.

CT wrote:The second trick, even though Kev's speedbleeders are the shite, is to vacuum bleed them.

That's the other reason I get ABS to do it .

Flushed out the original fluid 2 months after picking up the car following some brake fade around Wakefield. Can't remember what I used then but it was a DOT 4. Solved the fade problem. I used CT's recomended method with a modification for the ABS being on the opposite side in the NC.

I'm running Penrite DOT 4 Super Racing fluid now. Changed it before I went to Phillip Island. It only takes about 20 - 30 minutes to change over the fluid using the speed bleeders by yourself. Would be quicker with someone helping.

I know there is a thread on the site somewhere saying stay away from silicon DOT 5 as it does nasty things to your brake system. You may need to do a search to find it.

...those pads will be fun when they're cold...

so many things to consider