How to ruin the handling of an MX5.by Norman H Gar

[evil_weevil]

Cars are complicated... and nothing is net pure positive (even those grippier tyres cause more friction when accelerating on straights). I've actually had more fun doing fine tuning and just driving my car the last 2 years... than I did trying to get it to work the previous couple without constant changes being made. Enjoy it and above all else modify the car in the way you enjoy, be it track times or aesthetics you determine whether it's a good or bad modification.

this.

[hks_kansei]

This thread is totally stupid. Except the last 5 posts. No good comparing apples and oranges.

Can you modify an apple enough to make it as good as an orange?

[hamx5ter]

This thread is totally stupid. Except the last 5 posts. No good comparing apples and oranges.

Can you modify an apple enough to make it as good as an orange?

Are you daft? Apples are MUCH better than oranges ..
And modifying them will just ruin their handling..

[Basho]

This thread is totally stupid. Except the last 5 posts. No good comparing apples and oranges.

Can you modify an apple enough to make it as good as an orange?:P

Been done , called an Oragapul looks like an ape and you can guess what it does all day

[Zcootz]

This thread is totally stupid. Except the last 5 posts. No good comparing apples and oranges.

Can you modify an apple enough to make it as good as an orange?:P

Been done , called an Oragapul looks like an ape and you can guess what it does all day

but what's his time around Winton ?

[Basho]

This thread is totally stupid. Except the last 5 posts. No good comparing apples and oranges.

Can you modify an apple enough to make it as good as an orange?:P

Been done , called an Oragapul looks like an ape and you can guess what it does all day

but what's his time around Winton ?

Dunno but he's reputed to pull hard through corners at Willowbank,

[LuckyCat]

I have been reading the Mazda Miata performance handbook by Norman h Garrett 111. he is a former Mazda Engeneer..miata project..he says pretty well anything you do to an Mx5 will make it handle WORSE..Wider/bigger wheels...Lowering...Sway bars...bigger brakes..big camber..almost anything you can think of...This might explain why Guran goes around corners quicker than anybody.. Norman says don't worry about body roll, it doesn't affect grip....he does say put grippier tyres on the stock rims though....

Well ok then everyone here has just done their dough on mods. But Mr Garrett is entitled to his opinion, which would seem to be the opposite to that of Mr Keith Tanner. That's ok, and how things should be. So there are your apples and oranges. And Guran knows his lines and his car so he knows what he can get away with. Horse and rider as one.. So true.
Also true that some can punt their standard cars around Wakey quicker than some in modified cars. Better drivers, more experience and getting the lines right.

Honestly I don't see a problem. Those who want to mod their cars will, and others won't. Easy. Both opinions have their advantages....

c

[Patrick Bramston]

For some prople who don't know Norman he was a studio engineer Mazda's California design studio for the Miata project.. After that he founded the Miata club of America and was the founding Editor of the Miata magazine..He has tested hundreds of aftermarket products and had feedback from thosands of enthusiasts/ modifiers...He just states that some aftermarket parts that may look GOOD will slow you down..he does recomend lowering the car one inch but the effect on the cars roll centre is minimal. he does also recomends threaded spring perch adapters so you can corner weight the car and good shock absorbers..He recomends a good alignment off course..He also likes style bars as a body brace but thinks strut tower braces are are complete waste of time as the car does not have struts and the forces are contained in the wishbones.. I could go on....

[LuckyCat]

For some prople who don't know Norman he was a studio engineer Mazda's California design studio for the Miata project.. After that he founded the Miata club of America and was the founding Editor of the Miata magazine..He has tested hundreds of aftermarket products and had feedback from thosands of enthusiasts/ modifiers...He just states that some aftermarket parts that may look GOOD will slow you down..he does recomend lowering the car one inch but the effect on the cars roll centre is minimal. he does also recomends threaded spring perch adapters so you can corner weight the car and good shock absorbers..He recomends a good alignment off course..He also likes style bars as a body brace but thinks strut tower braces are are complete waste of time as the car does not have struts and the forces are contained in the wishbones.. I could go on....

So.. coilover suspension, corner weights, wheel alignment, tyres. No mention about power and torque increase?

c

[gslender]

He also likes style bars as a body brace but thinks strut tower braces are are complete waste of time as the car does not have struts and the forces are contained in the wishbones.. I could go on....

See, I don't get this..... So why did all future MX5s come with strut tower braces then? And does he really believe a style bar adds to the rigidity of the chassis? C'mon how can ya take the other advice as right then?

G

[sailaholic]

No there is plenty on power and or torque increase in there too.

No 1 is use the red line, it was designed to be used. Also gives a x dollars do this or want y speed, most economical is this.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Patrick Bramston]

Style bars run across the car from seat belt tower to seat belt tower up high where the car flexes the most, he like the single hoop from racing beat, don't NB8B's have a low down bar across there..Power is covered in the book but that is clear cut, handling is not.Don't we all want to make our cars handle the best for the least amount of money..sell those strut tower braces to people who like the look of them because they will slow you down...

[lightyear]

The wide wheel/tyre debate could be fixed if someone was willing to do the testing. It would need to be someone very familiar with driving there car, as well as being quickest in class and consistent. Same with every mod really. I run the widest wheels/ tyres and I am setting the quickest times. And agree that v min is not the best way to show performance. A lot can happen between the v max and min, and how long that took to change. I think body roll will transient slower. Lap times are surely the answer to performance. Regardless of any other numbers. I would be willing to swap my 225 and 9" rims for a session with somebody to get a fair comparison. But they would have to be the same nitto's, and in similar condition to get accurate results. Maybe when Brendan gets his 205 on 8" rims we can swap. But he has no abs, so don't trust him flat spotting a tyre . I am going with big aero to help with my big tyres this Saturday at winton. I will upload a pic of my triple element wing on my build thread tonight..
And agree strut braces are just dead weight. I use no braces at all.

[Patrick Bramston]

The contact patch of a 215/45/16 is the same as a 185/60/14 just turned 90 degrees..Tyres float the weight that is on them according to how much pressure is on them..Wider tyres do not give more grip but do add a lot of unsprung weight..According to Norman...

[lee]

Style bars run across the car from seat belt tower to seat belt tower up high where the car flexes the most, he like the single hoop from racing beat, don't NB8B's have a low down bar across there..Power is covered in the book but that is clear cut, handling is not.Don't we all want to make our cars handle the best for the least amount of money..sell those strut tower braces to people who like the look of them because they will slow you down...

I think it is ridiculous to claim that modifications don't do anything to a car's performance. Guran is a phenomenal driver, and he runs rings around anyone else in a stock mx5, but the simple fact is that he doesn't hold lap records for every circuit he's been on. Compare his time at Philip Island with Lightyear's time in the turbo NA6, for example. Lightyear is about 18 seconds quicker. Ben Sale does ~2:01 with Bilsteins, Koni springs, Whiteline adjustable sway bars, full exhaust system, NA8 brakes, chassis stiffening and wider, grippier tyres.

Again, I don't want to rain on Guran's parade, he's a mentalist in a stock NA. But to claim that mods are detrimental to a car's performance is stupid.


Also, if bigger, wider tyres don't do anything, then why aren't Lambos running 185/60/14? Their tyres are around the 300mm wide mark.