Q's about the willwood upgrade

[madjak]

I would look into it a bit further, and someone with greater knowledge of the word "moment" would be able to give you better advice, but I would compare the pad area of the powerlites, the moment and the rotor size to stock. Without doing any of this myself I think you might find there is not to great a difference. (could be completely wrong.)

I'll take a crack at it!

"Moment" comes from 'moment of inertia' or 'moment of force' and is really just another term for torque. So it's the rotational force acting on a connection or increase / decrease in rotational acceleration. A larger moment either means the force is further away from the center of rotation or the force is larger for the same distance.

With a larger diameter, the pad is further away from the center of the rotating assembly and so applies a larger 'moment' of force to the disc. This means that the same size pad will have a higher leverage and so be more effective at stopping for the same pad pressure and area.

There is a reverse too though, in that a larger rotor has the mass further from it's rotating center and so it also has a larger 'moment of inertia' meaning it requires more force to change it's acceleration. This isn't desirable from a brake rotor point of view... but it's effect is minimal compared to the benefit of the larger leverage the pad has.

There is another small benefit in that the friction across the pad surface is straighter and less radial than a small pad radius. This means a pad running on a larger rotor will see less twisting force and have a more even temperature across the rotor. Once again it's not much but it helps.

The biggest benefit to a larger rotor is more in it's larger friction area, meaning that the heat load from stopping a car is spread over a larger surface that both has larger cooling capacity and potentially more thermal mass. So a small step up in diameter could mean the surface temp is reduced by more than the difference in ratio.

So something like this: (my guesstimates given a fixed heat load for a set time)
NA6 rotor - 700 degrees
NA8 rotor - 630 degrees
Wilwood 11" - 500 degrees
Wilwood 11.75" 420 degrees

[madjak]

A bit more... These are my guesstimates on the braking capacity of a wilwood 11.75" with dynapro vs a wilwood 11" with powerlite.

7% extra leverage
25% extra pad area (means 25% extra life, less heat into the pad)
22% extra pad thickness (means another 22% extra life, plus less heat into the pad)
7.5% extra surface area and 7.5% extra Moment of Inertia
7.5% extra cooling area
2% extra thermal mass

So my guess is that a 11.75" rotor is 25% more effective than a 11" rotor. So it should run a good bit cooler and last over 50% longer. (I'd say way more though given both pads and rotors last longer if they don't get too hot)

[guss_bruss]

Thanks for all the information guys. I have ordered the FM Dynapro 11.75" kit, hopefully it suits my needs!

[Okibi]

Any reason you chose FM over Good-win, TSE etc. ?

[DarrenM]

Thanks for all the information guys. I have ordered the FM Dynapro 11.75" kit, hopefully it suits my needs!

How much did FM sting you for freight? The 2 times I've tried to buy from them the freight they wanted to charge was massively overstated.

I run the big brake kit from Goodwin Racing which is Wilwood calipers & big ass 2 piece rotors. This kit's been on the car for over 10 years now. It's done a few track days at Winton & Morgan Park & was a daily driver for 5 years. The stopping power is awesome, not just compared to a standard NA6 but also compared to most of the newer cars I've had in the last 10 plus years.

[guss_bruss]

Any reason you chose FM over Good-win, TSE etc. ?

For $1,800 AUD shipped, I got a front Dynapro caliper kit (not dynalite) and also included in that $1,800 was a "stage 1" rear upgrade which is new pads and rotors.

Track speed wanted like $600USD? (I think) for just the fronts. Which meant I had to buy rotors and pads for the rear still (DBA and hawk pads in Australia are $$$$$$) so buying from either of those vendors would have cost more to do a full upgrade (F+R).

So really the decision was based price and the fact my car is primarily a street car (legality and driveability), this meant I could only upgrade the fronts so I could keep the hand brake and because I have an 01 the proportioning is done by the abs module so I didn't need a proportioning valve (illegal iirc). FM I think is the only company to offer a 4 wheel upgrade keeping the OEM rear calipers to my knowledge.

If I had a 89-00 model I would have done an oem upgrade to stay legal, if legality isn't an issue I might have gone 4 wheel willwood upgrade or maybe just the same Fm kit. I just think the FM kit is best value for money.

Thanks for all the information guys. I have ordered the FM Dynapro 11.75" kit, hopefully it suits my needs!

How much did FM sting you for freight? The 2 times I've tried to buy from them the freight they wanted to charge was massively overstated.

I got quoted like $285 USD which shipping is reasonable for 20kg shipping by plane I feel.

[MrsB]

buy yellowspeeds wilwoods are a waste of money

[guss_bruss]

buy yellowspeeds wilwoods are a waste of money

i'd rather kill myself than buy something that'll do the job for me

[Okibi]

Which of the yellowspeeds fit inside 15" wheels, just the 286mm?

[guss_bruss]

Which of the yellowspeeds fit inside 15" wheels, just the 286mm?

FYI Mania has just the front calipers for sale starting at $1,700 which doesn't include the rear brake upgrade included in the FM kit. to get a setup close to FM's kit you are looking at $1,900 and thats NOT including the rear brake upgrade and NOT shipped. I paid $1,800AUD for a front and rear upgrade shipped to my door.

FM's wilwood kit just surpasses everyone in terms of quality and value.

[guss_bruss]

Just made a new thread but thought i'd also ask here as there are people here who have direct experience with Wilwoods

Which thread locker do you guys use on brakes?

So the wilwood manual says to use 271 Red loctite, although it's not readily available in Aust.
I've also had a couple of people say to use a blue loctite as red stuff is to strong for the 5/16" bolts which join the 2 piece rotors together.

Just wanting to hear what you guys use.
I obviously have a torque wrench and plan to torque them up to spec as well, and my kit does NOT allow safety wire either

thanks guys

[Hoolio]

Powerlite calipers use a Wilwood 7912 pad shape.

Look at the brand of pads you want and see if they have it, they will all list a cross reference somewhere, if not here are the dimensions/pictures.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakeP ... dtype=7912

I have these on the rear, I struggled to find pads in the brand that I wanted, be it Project Mu and PFC. However saying that Project Mu now make the pads (they don't list them on their site last time I looked, but I have a set sitting here so I know they are real.)

PFC don't make them, I checked with AUS, USA and Japan, and found a shape that was close, but it was an old lotus pad that they had no stock of. As Madjak does though there is always the grinder option…

Tim, FYI Good-Win-Racing now carries custom cut PFC 01 pads for the Powerlite calliper.

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-2177.html

I have been researching this as I am looking to put together a brake package which uses Powerlite callipers at the rear, and based on what I have read I very much want to try the PFC pads.

Can you tell me which wheels you have tried with your front brakes, and which do/don't fit (with widths and offsets too if possible)? I asked V8 Roadsters for a brake template a few days ago but have had no response yet.

[Tim_cyc03]

Yes I saw that a few months ago and got a little excited, but not excited enough to order just yet. Angelo was using the PFC in the dynalites for most of the season I believe, he seemed happy with them, but I think due to availability he has gone back to Hawk maybe, or some other brand. A short time after I posted that I was able to get Project Mu HC16-03 in both 7816 and 7912 shape which was my ideal intended pad, hence also why I haven't tried the PFC.

On to the actual question.

15x8 6ul version 1 or 2 and 15x8 6ul version 4 both fit my kit fine.

I can't see the powerlite having any issues with fitment from memory.

15x8 enkei PF01 required a 3mm spacer for the front only.

I haven't tried anything else besides those three.

What are you planning up front?

[Hoolio]

Thanks, that's very helpful indeed.

Having digested the Big Thread on miataturbo I have decided that my ideal upgrade would be Dynapro Radial callipers at the front on 11,75" discs, and Powerlite callipers at the rear on NB Sport discs (2-piece after market equivalents). So that's the same as yours

I'm going to have to buy at least one set of wheels to make this work, so I have been conducting the due diligence to make sure that I will have a reasonable selection of wheels to choose from. I have found only two vendors of a kit using the front brakes I want (V8 Roadsters and 949 Racing) so fitment templates are thin on the ground, and it seems to be difficult to get definitive information about specific wheel fitments. I asked 949 Racing to verify wheel clearance with their kit; they wouldn't provide a fitment template and insisted that a 15x8 6UL would not fit, and that the minimum requirement is a 15x9 with 3 to 5 mm spacer! 15x9 is not an option for me because the 2F wheel width limit is 8".

I made my own template, but Wilwood doesn't supply a 3D drawing of the calliper so I have had to make do with 2D pictures. My template is, if anything, pessimistic, but it will (just) fit inside one of plohl's 15x8 6ULs (Gen 3). This left me wondering about the info I got from 949 Racing…

Today I received a template from V8 Roadsters. To me it looks optimistic – it will even fit inside my cheap Chinese 7" wheels - so I really wanted to hear from someone who has actually tried it. I'll take it from you that I'll be okay!

The Powerlite calliper at the rear is, as you say, no problem. The inner corner of the calliper is very close to the wheel centre of a 6UL 15x8 using Flyin' Miata's template, but FM does specifically say that that wheel will fit (and there is a photo on the website to back up that).

[rossint]

I’ve got the V8 Roadsters brakes, 11.75” rotors with Dynapro calipers. I’m very happy with it, the V8R kit is supposed to fit the widest range of wheels due to the hat design from what I’ve read. It fits my 15x7 street wheels no problem as well as my 15x9 track wheels.