NA Sway bar upgrade

Wheels, Suspension, Brakes & Tyres questions and answers

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Magpie
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby Magpie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:22 pm

NitroDann wrote:The diff does not replace an ARB, and the ARBs job isnt to transfer weight to the outside tyre.

Dann


OK maybe I did not communicate effectivley, I was not saying that the diff replaces the rear sway bar. A torsen diff senses which wheel has the better grip, and automatically biases the power to that wheel without ever completely removing power from the other wheel. Power is transferred automatically without the use of friction pads or plates. Sway bars are designed to keep the car 'flat' and keep grip (see info from Whiteline below) in a manner different to a torsen. The torsen will not keep the car 'flat' but will keep grip by biasing the wheel that has the most grip. However should a wheel be lifted off the ground a torsen will not help as it needs some resistance to bias power.

I'm not saying that one replaces the other and I'm sure that people with torsen diffs also run rear sways. Same as I'm sure that I may not be correct in this post as well as my last.

I'm happy to be wrong, it is a way I learn and you can't be told you are wrong if you say nothing.

from http://www.whiteline.com.au/vehicle_swaybars.php
Swaybars, Stabiliser Bars, Anti-Roll Bars
As the name suggests their objective is to reduce sway, or body roll, and stabilise a vehicle under lateral (cornering) forces. Formula 1 cars still use sway bars along side the shocks and springs as it is the ONLY suspension component principally designed to control body roll. Unfortunately, many aftermarket spring manufacturers still design their lowered springs too hard, trying to control body roll when it's the sway bars job.

The fitting of bigger Whiteline Sway bars is still the best dollar for dollar handling improvement you can make.

Why? First, while car manufacturers appreciate the role the sway bar plays in vehicle control, safety and comfort, their standard bars, like the vehicles they are fitted to, are built to a compromise of price, performance and comfort. Secondly, handling and suspension design is an evolutionary process with constant changes.

Whiteline Sway bars dramatically improve the grip, handling and performance of your vehicle. Cornering loads are spread more evenly across the tyres delivering more grip and frankly, that's what it's all about. You also get improved tyre wear as your tyres stay flatter and more upright. Comfort improves because your car sits flatter through bends meaning less movement inside the vehicle.

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KevGoat
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby KevGoat » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:53 pm

Am going to continue on this vein as I consider it's still in context of the original post ...

I know nothing about Torsen Diffs so loving this stuff. From what has been posted, am I correct that while cornering, when a wheel starts to lose grip, the torque applied to that wheel will be transferred or partially transferred to the other wheel? For this to occur, the other wheel must have sufficient weight being applied to handle the extra touque?

As such, consideration must be that any sway bar fitted with this kind of diff would have to be light enough to allow some body roll - is that correct?

What I am now trying to get my head around, is the varying affects that sway bars of differing thickness/strengths would have on the working of the diff. I would have still thought a light bar would be better than none at all??

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KevGoat
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby KevGoat » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:06 pm

NitroDann wrote:Im going to stay out of this thread after this post, but I got about halfway through Magpies last post and stopped reading when I got to the second piece of wrong information and bad advice.
The diff does not replace an ARB, and the ARBs job isnt to transfer weight to the outside tyre.

Dann


I don't understand. Why stay out ot the thread? Why not explain and help us out with good info?

Many of us on here, including many of us "old blokes", are very new to all this technical stuff. That's why these sorts of questions get asked...

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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby NitroDann » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:13 pm

Because I am already frustrated that OP thinks he can ask for other peoples effort without giving any of his own up first, and frankly, Im not a suspension expert anyways. Also all of the questions that have been asked so far either have no goal (IE: I drive my car slow and never hit the traction limit of either end of the car but I want to add 1 swaybar 'upgrade') or are googleable (IE: How does a torsen work).

Im happy to answer genuine questions that are hard to google, but OPs question is like saying, "I dont ever drift, but whats a good hydraulic handbrake setup for a street car".

He doesnt need it, he either knows he doesnt need it or he hasnt googled, and he is forcing people to put a lot of effort in in order to help him, on their time, for free. No one wants to help anyone who wont help themself.

If someone wants to start another thread or even just PM me about the finer details or clarification about something they think I can help them with great, go for it Im keen. But you can type "miata swaybar info" into google and get over 400 thousand results.

A discussion relating to how diffs and swaybars effect each other, now thats an interesting thread Im up for!
Not how does one or the other works, thats why google exists.

Dann
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speed wrote:If I was to do it again, I wouldn't even consider the supercharger.

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KevGoat
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby KevGoat » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:33 pm

Fair enough Dann.

I know you are not specifically targeting my post, but just to clarify, I had made the effort to Google about the Torsen Diff prior to posting my last questions. I was then asking questions about what I'd read, but didn't fully understand (most of what I'd read :mrgreen: ) and what Magpie and you were both discussing in relation to the diffs vs bars.

Also starting to realise just how complex this whole question gets when springs, shocks, ride heights, bushes, bars, diffs, and everything else is taken in to account!

I may not go to the track or take my car to the limit, but I am enjoy having the time nowadays learning this stuff and often discussing it on here or other Forums gives much better "real life" information than any technical paper can.

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NitroDann
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby NitroDann » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:36 pm

Excellent reply, you are a gentleman.

I think you fully understand what Im saying, thats great, if you want to ask those questions lets discuss it, im sure there is much for myself to learn also, however go start a new thread. :)

Dann
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speed wrote:If I was to do it again, I wouldn't even consider the supercharger.

Magpie
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby Magpie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:47 pm

I bear no ill either as I want to learn more about this stuff as well.

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Earlybird
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby Earlybird » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:31 pm

NitroDann wrote:Because I am already frustrated that OP thinks he can ask for other peoples effort without giving any of his own up first, and frankly, Im not a suspension expert anyways. Also all of the questions that have been asked so far either have no goal (IE: I drive my car slow and never hit the traction limit of either end of the car but I want to add 1 swaybar 'upgrade') or are googleable (IE: How does a torsen work).

Im happy to answer genuine questions that are hard to google, but OPs question is like saying, "I dont ever drift, but whats a good hydraulic handbrake setup for a street car".

He doesnt need it, he either knows he doesnt need it or he hasnt googled, and he is forcing people to put a lot of effort in in order to help him, on their time, for free. No one wants to help anyone who wont help themself.

If someone wants to start another thread or even just PM me about the finer details or clarification about something they think I can help them with great, go for it Im keen. But you can type "miata swaybar info" into google and get over 400 thousand results.

A discussion relating to how diffs and swaybars effect each other, now thats an interesting thread Im up for!
Not how does one or the other works, thats why google exists.

Dann


Wow!

I never meant to frustrate you Dann, does this mean we will never meet and consumate our MX5 love?. You have always led me to believe you have the answer to everything in nearly every thread on the forum and when you revealed you're not a suspension expert my heart sunk a little...ok..a LOT! Clearly this is the end of our forum relationship as it was all lies..LIES..dammit! Perhaps it was never meant to flourish and end in dreamy happiness..sigh :cry:

93_Clubman. Well done for quoting me out of context :beer: . For your benefit (and possibly others if they are tuning into this irrelevant saga), I should point out that comment (from a sensitive thread that got out of hand) was in jest as Dann was being a naughty little forumite at the same time, so perhaps you should spank him and send him to the naughty corner too. Thanks again for contributing nothing significant to this thread. I hope it doesn't become a habit.

Back on track now...

Magpie, thanks heaps for your posts, I found them very helpful and informative! Please feel free to hijack the thread and continue as it appears there is interest (or start another as my jilted friend (sniffle) suggested).

Myself though, have found what I was after and won't be contributing to this thread further as I would never want to "force people to put a lot of effort in in order to help me, on their time, for free".

Hopefully those who have nothing useful to add will do the same. I think we've all had enough sarcasm and jest for now....

Zoom Zoom :NA6:

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Okibi
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby Okibi » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:16 am

Off topic and chest beating posts removed. :roll:

Magpie thanks for contributing to the forum and remaining helpful and positive.

People come here for advice, if you don't have advice to give then give your keyboard a rest and go drive your MX-5.
If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away? Neither would I.

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Steampunk
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby Steampunk » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:06 am

Image

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Okibi
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Re: NA Sway bar upgrade

Postby Okibi » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:21 am

Thanks! :mrgreen:
If you had access to a car like this, would you take it back right away? Neither would I.


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