brake fade or another problem

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Steampunk
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brake fade or another problem

Postby Steampunk » Mon May 10, 2010 9:23 pm

project.r.racing wrote:
NMX516 wrote:I'd be pulling the front brakes apart again, clean the disks and scuff the pads and also change the fluid.
+1, especially the last part. cannot believe it wasn't changed when new rotors/pads fitted.


You don't need to change the fluid when you change pads, do you buy new wheels whenever you buy new tyres?, remember GP14 stated the fluid is only a year old and he doesn't track the car.

It's not his rotors because they were installed well over a year ago, so what he is getting at is that this is a fairly sudden occurence.

Do a thorough inspection on your brake lines as well.
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brake fade or another problem

Postby NMX516 » Tue May 11, 2010 1:45 am

1red5 wrote:You don't need to change the fluid when you change pads, do you buy new wheels whenever you buy new tyres?, remember GP14 stated the fluid is only a year old and he doesn't track the car.

It's not his rotors because they were installed well over a year ago, so what he is getting at is that this is a fairly sudden occurence.

Do a thorough inspection on your brake lines as well.


So 1red5, you're saying not to change the brake fluid.

Sure, you don't have to change fluid when you change pads, but for the cost of fluid - $10 or $12 a bottle, why wouldn't you?! :roll: We're not talking new tyres and wheels here :roll: It doesn't hurt to renew the fluid often, regardless of whether you attend track days or not. Brake fluid absorbs moisture, which in turn creates corrosion of internal brake components. You may remember how much rain was about the place over summer. Again, for the sake of $10 and 30 mins two or three times a year, why not make sure the only thing stopping you, your brakes, are in the best possible shape they could be? So the only reason I can see why you would make such a daft suggestion as to not change the brake fluid, is fiscal. If you can't afford to maintain your car properly, you can't afford to own it.

As for the rotors, well, buy some new rotors, read the installation instructions, and they will tell you to clean the surfaces with a brake parts cleaner before installing. That's not just my suggestion. Sure, don't do it and you will cruise around the streets for 12 months (not doing any spirited driving as GP14 has eluded to) and not notice that there is reduced performance because of the wax which wasn't removed from the rotor, but when you suddenly decide to drive down Mt Tamborine and ride the brakes, that's when the problem will rear its head. The pads would not be very worn, but I'll bet they're glazed - that's what wax can tend to do to them, and is why the manufacturers clearly state that the rotors should be cleaned before installation.

I'm not saying that is definitely the problem, but checking it will go some way to solving the problem, and if it wasn't the problem, you'll have checked it, made certain, and be able to tick that off the check list of possible problems and know that your fluid, pads and rotors are doing their job correctly and to the best of their ability.

As for inspecting the brake lines, how do you suggest that be done 1red5? By looking at the exterior of them? What will that tell you about their internal condition? Brake lines can deteriorate internally and cause blockages to the fluid getting through - you can't see that from the outside, but changing the fluid more often than not will help prevent that too!! :wink:

Anyway, good luck GP14. Hopefully you'll have the problem sorted soon.
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brake fade or another problem

Postby GP14 » Tue May 11, 2010 2:53 am

come on peeps. we're all friends here. All your advices were very helpful and informative. Yes I should have/could have/ would have but didn't so thats my fault for following the workshop manual to the letter.

I will check all that you guys have suggested and will let you know if I find anything this weekend. Now be nice. :mrgreen:

thanks guys

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brake fade or another problem

Postby NMX516 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:24 am

Yeah sorry GP14 and 1red5. I got a little carried away :oops: My view is that it doesn't hurt to carry out maintenance that might not be totally necessary at the time, but will help prevent problems in the future, and possibly save money in the future too.
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brake fade or another problem

Postby muzza2 » Tue May 11, 2010 3:45 pm

i personally think it was due to the drivers ahead of him, and having to ride the brakes,
unless you have something like a $300,000 car with carbon ceramic brakes, then ofcourse your going to get brake fade after 10-20 minutes of riding the brakes.
its not a race car, so these pads and rotors, sure they are semi-race specific, however while your in a race, the pads still have time to cool between each corner.
if the cars were sh*t drivers ahead and geoff was riding the brakes because nothing else could be done (expect stopping which he did eventually) then ofcourse you'll get brake fades.

as for cleaning the rotors, well imo (and mine alone) i think thats a silly comment. simply because after 12 months of mostly daily drive, one would assume that they would be clean by now. unless your gunna take them back off and get them machined again, its a waste of time.
pads these days have been designed for the complete idiots on the road (the comodore drivers of this world) so anyone can change the pads and rotors without having to sufficently bed them in. as for geoff, he did bed them in as per the instructions of the pads. so i highly doubt that the pads would have been glazed.

i personally just think it all comes down to the driving style of the cars ahead.
least u pulled over before anything bad happened.

just on a side note, looked at the EBC website, and it clearly states for the greenstuff brake pads, they are not to be used for the race track, and they are rated up to 600 degrees C

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brake fade or another problem

Postby Charlie Brown » Tue May 11, 2010 5:29 pm

muzza2 wrote:just on a side note, looked at the EBC website, and it clearly states for the greenstuff brake pads, they are not to be used for the race track, and they are rated up to 600 degrees C


Neither is the next up level, Redstuff. OK for the rears but not the fronts. I know why because chunks of front pad material gets ripped out when using them on the track.
I've moved up to the Yellowstuff. They work great but have terrible sticky dust.
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Steampunk
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brake fade or another problem

Postby Steampunk » Tue May 11, 2010 6:31 pm

NMX516 wrote:Yeah sorry GP14 and 1red5. I got a little carried away :oops: My view is that it doesn't hurt to carry out maintenance that might not be totally necessary at the time, but will help prevent problems in the future, and possibly save money in the future too.


No need to apologise mate, I agree with you that it IS a good idea to change fluid whenever you have the opportunity, what I was getting at is that, as you metioned it is NOT necessary to do so. I was actually quoting project.r's comment about how "...I cannot believe it wasn't changed".

GP14 knows what he is doing..... most of the time :mrgreen:

I totally agree with you that GP14 should do the simple things now and rule them out of the equation with his issue.
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brake fade or another problem

Postby de Bounce » Tue May 11, 2010 8:06 pm

muzza2 wrote:i personally think it was due to the drivers ahead of him, and having to ride the brakes,
unless you have something like a $300,000 car with carbon ceramic brakes, then of course your going to get brake fade after 10-20 minutes of riding the brakes.
its not a race car, so these pads and rotors, sure they are semi-race specific, however while your in a race, the pads still have time to cool between each corner.
If the cars were sh*t drivers ahead and geoff was riding the brakes because nothing else could be done (expect stopping which he did eventually) then of course you'll get brake fades.

An old trick is to select a lower gear and use the engine to assist retardation just like a truck.
You may need to use the brakes occasionally if it starts going too quick or revving too high.
The times you are off the brakes should allow them to recover and not overheat.

Surprisingly you can do the same thing with an auto.
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brake fade or another problem

Postby muzza2 » Tue May 11, 2010 9:29 pm

yes this is an option, and to be honest, one i would have choosen aswell.
unless ur in first gear going as slow as possible... =)

remember, a semi-race pad is going to be softer then normal cars, so his brake fade will be quicker then others on the road.

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brake fade or another problem

Postby GP14 » Wed May 12, 2010 12:30 am

de Bounce wrote:An old trick is to select a lower gear and use the engine to assist retardation just like a truck.
You may need to use the brakes occasionally if it starts going too quick or revving too high.
The times you are off the brakes should allow them to recover and not overheat.

Surprisingly you can do the same thing with an auto.


muzza2 wrote:yes this is an option, and to be honest, one i would have choosen aswell.
unless ur in first gear going as slow as possible... =).


yeah i was going so slow most of the time i was in 2nd gear and i still had to keep braking because the 4wd ahead had his/her foot constantly on the brake. If i let it off i would catch up.


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