Braking performance of an SE. My SJ Camira stopped quicker.

[MikeyK]

Well it looks like I might have stirred up a hornets nest. Always thought that would happen.

Facts based on my memory and discussions with friends at the time,
1. these statements were based on comparison when I first bought the car three years ago on original tyres.
2. These comparisons were not made under strict driving conditions so are prone to some error. Just based on every day driving swapping cars for a few months.
3. Conditions may have improved slightly since new tyres and brake fluid replacement. But I had not noticed it.
4. The Camira was a limited edition SJ (sports) model (I know it was only a Camira). Had uprated suspension, I installed uprated gas shocks (my mechanic thought too good for the car), decent brake pads and very good tyres.
5. Only talking about speeds below 50 Km/h. (Camira was much slower than the SE).

Following the thread I am sensing a theme of non OEM brake pads and brake fluid to improve braking performance.

Alternatively, go easy on the ABS when not track racing. (Though it rarely engages.)

Still keen to compare. I just thought this is how it is. Will also ask to get the car tested during the next service. They service so many MX5's.

[Mr_Q]

The effectiveness of brakes should be determined by the stopping distance, not how hard it "feels". Unless you're actually measuring the braking distances of the two cars then you're not really comparing anything.

[wun911]

Can you get rid of the ABS???
Like swtich it off bypass it etc???

[Okibi]

You'd be stupid to disconnect the ABS. It's very hard to brake better than it especially with no notice in an accident situation.

http://mx5cartalk.com/phpBB-3.0.2/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=32652&start=0

- edit Just to be sure you really are using your ABS, find an empty carpark and when no one is looking do an ABS stop from 50 km/h. Just ram your foot as hard as you can to the floor (don't feather like old school brakes). You foot should pulsate as the abs kicks in and out. Sorry if it sounds patronising but when we do our basic driver training i'm surprised how many people don't know what their ABS feels like and some don't even know if they have ABS or not.

[wun911]

Its not one of my weight reduction issues, I really dont like that grinding/pulsating feeling. I want to feel that hard bite and locked up wheel feeling...

[marcusus]

Its not one of my weight reduction issues, I really dont like that grinding/pulsating feeling. I want to feel that hard bite and locked up wheel feeling...

I would much prefer to know I'm not going to hit the object in front of me and put up with the grinding/pulsating feeling, rather than have the brake pedal feel nice under pressure...

At least I would if my MX had ABS...

Besides, how often to you actually activate the ABS?

[wun911]

I feel the MX5 can handle well when trying to avoid accidents during daily driving (I've had some close calls over the years).

I feel the ABS kicks in too early when breaking hard before a turn on the track at Wunton. The pulsating/grinding feeling makes me feel disconnected, it feels like I dont get as much information and feedback from the road. I think it would be more predictable if the wheels simply stop turning. (A nubes point of view)

I only understood ABS at DECA, like trying to avoid a cone just before you come to a complete stop. But there were so many other MX5s that can get around the cone and come to a stop without ABS and they were doing similar speeds.

I also notice in my NB8B there is dead pedal ie press the break and the first 0.5 cm does nothing then after that it feels progressively more firm and it comes to a stop. I have ss lines new fluids, greased caliper pins, closed the gap with allan key etc etc.

In comparasion with a new mazda 3 the break pedal feels like an on off switch! I got the MX5 seccond hand so I'm wondering if it used to have a break like an on off swtich with that instant bite the moment you press it, or has it just worn down over the years? Will a new break master cylinder help make it better?

[Mr_Q]

... there were so many other MX5s that can get around the cone and come to a stop without ABS and they were doing similar speeds.

It's not supposed to be a replacement for good driving. It's there to help, not take over.

There's also a fair difference between a skid pan environment where you know you need to stop at a certain point (so you can plan ahead) and the highway where some dingbat swerves into your lane with no warning.

[Mr Morlock]

You are right Mr Q. The reality for most drivers is that a panic situation results in braking foot being planted on the pedal with extreme prejudice and without ABS you often get nasty lock up. Few of us ( me included)are so well trained or disciplined to feather the brakes as this is not exactly a daily occurrence. ABS must have saved many lives and reduced or avoided injuries- a great invention in my view.

[RDM]

[quote="MikeyK"]Following the thread I am sensing a theme of non OEM brake pads and brake fluid to improve braking performance.

Alternatively, go easy on the ABS when not track racing. (Though it rarely engages.)
[/quote]

Hey,
The ABS does kick in early in the SEs... especially if you're listening for the tell tale tyre squeal. I ran mine with at all sorts of speed from braking at 200+ to carpark tests of jamming my foot on the pedal from 70kph hoping to get the tyres to squeal just to know I was getting to the limit. Nup... nada.

You do feel it on the track alot more too... but others just use it and adapt their braking marker. It helps you use as much of the braking as possible without locking up... but I fear the engineers have adjusted it just that little bit too conservatively. I felt I could always brake a little later and harder... but the ABS decided I shouldn't... ;P I hated the ABS feel but had to tolerate it on the slower corners (eg T2 and T9 at Eastern Creek)... But it was my everyday driver and it has saved my bacon once or twice on rainy commutes and blind drivers not checking their blind spots.

As for after market pads, most can offer better initial bite, but usually at the cost of more brake dust and the potential for a nasty squeal if braking slowly. OEM pads are also kinder to your rotors. BUT... (that is a big BUT), if you intend to do any sort of serious track driving or repeated fast hilly runs, get some better pads... the OEMs fade after about 10-15min or so of heavy stops in the mountains (by this I mean gut in your mouth, I'm going to fall off the side of the mountain type stopping... then just as quickly flattening the throttle to get to the next corner. Rinse and repeat ). While you're at it, replace the brake lines with braided ones (though at 30k km yours should still be reasonably up to the job).

If you're just city driving... leave it well alone. It's doing what it was designed to do... Just enjoy the ride...

RDM

[Caffeine]

What ABS can do, that even the very best drivers cannot, is brake individual wheels.

Consider a scenario where 1 or more wheels is braking on a surface with a different coefficient of friction to the other wheels. Even the best driver threshold braking can only brake up to the threshold of the wheel with the least grip. 4 channel ABS like that fitted to the MX5 (3 channel in the 10AE) can allow you to brake each of the 4 wheels up to their threshold...

And your brakes don't sound right. My NB8B, with hawk HP+ pads, stainless lines and DBA slotted rotors up front, manages 1.31G under brakes. Show me a camira that can match that and I'll be very surprised

[CT]

This thread is gold - can we have a pool room?

[Steampunk]

OK, I'll throw my hat in the ring here since no-one else has mentioned it.

Is this more of a perception issue than anything else?

What I mean is, I assume your camira would nose-dive considerably more under heavy braking, and thus you may think that because of this, it brakes so much more harder?
Also, the engagement point will be quite different. The camira's pedal might be really touchy, so it may make you think it is more responsive.

[AJ]

we all think it Andrew, just nobody has bothered to say it ....................I have to admit shamefully that I drove a Camira once..........*shudders*

[matt9111]

This may sound dumb, but i know on a other cars you can take the ABS fuse out, and it wont engage....obviously. So for track only why dont guys just pull it out?