mx5cartalk.com

Looks like the guy from the US is heading down under over the summer months
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.ph ... ost5431850

Just a heads up for anyone interested

their website is quite underwhelming.
I'm guessing they offer just flashing for newer cars with re-programmable chips rather than older cars without them?

Its mainly of interest for NC owners, as he is a leader in flashing the OEM ECU and getting very good gains. If you have intake/headers/exhaust its worth doing as it maximises the dollars already spent on mods.

I'm hoping that they can respond to my question in that thread. Their credibility will depend on their response.

Cheers,
Danny

Dont take this the wrong way.... but his credibility has well and truly been established.
I understand Dynotronics maybe unknown to you but if you search his posts on Miata.net you will see he lives and breaths this stuff.
Directly accessing the tables in the ECU is the only way to get a learning system to co-operate.
In the past he has explained why several types of piggy back systems cant and wont work long term, if you search you will find it.

Anyway take that with a grain of salt, I'd suggest reading some of his posts.

Mmmm, Asked them a number of times for a contact in Oz for any of the people for whom they claim to have reflashed NC ecus.
The correspondence stops at that point.

Adrianvh wrote:Dont take this the wrong way.... but his credibility has well and truly been established.
I understand Dynotronics maybe unknown to you but if you search his posts on Miata.net you will see he lives and breaths this stuff.
Directly accessing the tables in the ECU is the only way to get a learning system to co-operate.
In the past he has explained why several types of piggy back systems cant and wont work long term, if you search you will find it.

Anyway take that with a grain of salt, I'd suggest reading some of his posts.

Adrian, my question does not relate to their product, it relates to their comments regarding the suitability of the HKS product for use with the NC MX-5. In my opinion (and yes my opinion) they have steered someone away from a competitors product without a supporting argument/discussion....that is just not good enough and affects their credibility. To expect someone to go searching for the reason(s) is just plain laziness. Especially when they are incorrect.

I have not and will not pass comment on their product as I do not know anything about it.....and no I don't sell HKS products.

Regards,
Danny

Sailor if I had mods I didn't want big brother knowing about I'd want to remain confidential as well.

I'd like to know if it works on Oz ecus before I commit to the possible bricking of $2500 worth of equipment.
Yes, I know of one Oz ecu that was destroyed when a US flash was applied and have not heard of any successes.

I'm no electronics wiz or tuner but if they're just copying data off an eprom chip then they should be able to back it up and "reflash" the original chip if things don't work, unless they damage the hardware in some way?

Matt's ECU was an expensive brick, i'd be paranoid too.

I'll be installing a Cosworth kit complete with water/meth injection in December.
Hopefully you'll be here in mid december and I'll happily take you up on your offer.
Currently I'm using an Xede with a set of Goodwin headers and muffler.

dynotronics1 wrote:Danny, I'm sorry if you misunderstood my post before about the HKS.

Hi Joe, thanks for taking the time to respond to me question. I don't know how one could interpret your post that the HKS F-Con IS "does not play well with the mazda system,sorry" as being anything other than that it is not an acceptable solution for use on the NC MX-5.

The reason I requested more information from you regarding the unsuitability of the HKS F-Con IS for use on the NC MX-5 is that I have the HKS F-Con IS on my road NC and it has in my opinion worked perfectly for over 18 months in both naturally aspirated and FI applications. I've had no issues whatsoever. Further to this, I know of 3 other local NC's that have the F-con (all naturally aspirated - two circuit cars and one road registered automatic) installed. I know the owners personally and I am unaware of any issues they have had since the fitment of the F-Cons.

This vicious cycle of the factory PCM fighting the piggy-back ECU you talk of...what is the outcome of this scenario and have you actually had this happen with the current HKS F-Con IS model? I would have thought that by now I would have experienced something negative with the performance of my NC if this piggy-back computer did not "play well" with my standard PCM.

I will also be seeking clarification from HKS to ensure that the use of the F-Con IS on my NC is an approved application and does not come with the risk(s) you have highlighted.

Regards,
Danny

[QUOTE=dynotronics1;5439508]Monte, I will do that! let me know if you guys want to get together somewhere to have a "flash party"[/QUOTE]

Talk about cross pollination of forums.

Joe, a “Flash Party” would be great. Just give us a place and time here in Sydney and I’m sure there will be many from our Club that would love to come and see what you can do.
Just put me to the head of the queue along with Monte5 and Sailor.

When talking about the HKS, mr dynotronics is referring to the issue of long term fuel and spark trims, and short term closed loop trims.

I dont know if he is right, Ive no experience in this EXACT situation(NCs with HKS F Cons). The issue basically is that if you piggyback the signals, the car gets a reading from the WB (wideband o2 sensor) anyways.

So,you make the car runs leaner, to help with throttle response or economy or whatever, then the ecu gets the signal from the WB that says, hey this is leaner than I expected. Then long term fuel trims kick in, where the ecu just richens everything up, this is to counter things like a slowly blocking fuel filter causing a lean condition.

Most cars have closed loop running at idle, and below say, 50% map value (not 50% throttle, because 50% throttle at 2000rpm is the same as 100% throttle) and less than 3500 rpm.
Above this the ecu ignores the WB and runs on a preset fuel and spark map. This is open loop.
This is where your piggy back can help. But if the car is always in closed loop, always checking the WB to see whats happening, then a piggyback system should just be compensated for by the ecu, and you are back to stock.

Of course if you remove the WB the car will run on an open loop base map, and then you can piggyback to your hearts content, but the car will fault code and the emmissions and economy will be crap, and it may go into limp mode and cut out past 3000rpm or something.

My old pulsar rally car (stroked 2L) has a jaycar signal modifier wired into the map sensor wiring, and the o2 sensor unplugged to keep it in open loop mode 24/7 and let the piggyback signal modifier working.

This post was not meant to agree with either side of this debate, just help to explain long term fuel trim, and closed loop operation with piggybacks.

Dann

I am very interested in attending any demonstration event in Brisbane.
Joe, I hope you don't take our comments as being hostile, but more as us being cautious. As you would know, Australia is amongst the world's best with pioneering and engineering aftermarket automotive EMSs and many of us have had first-hand experience with not only ones made domestically, but also MegaSquirt & AEM from your neck of the woods, as well as products from South Africa, the UK, and of course Japan.
Upgraded chips, piggy-back, standalone EMS, daugtherboards, etc., we know the pros and cons, and been through many trial and error processes, so we like to know everything we can rather than take a leap of faith.

We welcome new ideas and support people/businesses who offer us more choice and provide good, reliable products and services at reasonable prices, especially those who make an effort at looking beyond their own borders.

Very few of us can afford a "MoTec system exhaust" but many of us like tinkering with our cars and enjoy the challenge of learning.

Please keep us all updated as to when and where you will be on your tour down under.

Cheers

Andrew