Help/advice for building an engine, ideas, specs, cost, etc

[meta]

Hi there everyone,

I'm looking for some advice in regards to getting an engine built while i'm away with the army for the next couple of months.
I'm not engine savy, and i wouldn't say i'm to experienced with engines, so in regards to parts and such, i'm not too well versed

Basically, i have a $10 000 budget for the engine alone (i can spare more dollars but i'm also budgeting for suspension and other bits, so maybe $14 000?)

I'm after something strong, reliable and with a bit more kick, about 80kw at the wheels or more would be lovely

I'm not after a turbo (bad experiences with an s13...)

But i'd consider supercharging for something different

Current set up is a stock 1.6 nearing the mid 200k...so it's in need of a rebuild/ upgrade soonish

I'd like to retain the 1.6, so it basically boils down to having it supercharged or Naturally aspirated

Overall, power is not my biggest concern, i'm more focused on having a strong, reliable engine, which will last the distance and a good thrashing on a track sometime

In terms of costs (parts, labor, etc) and reliability from the engines, i'm after advice on which would be more worthwhile? I can understand opinion has a real bias in regards to either set up, so if anyone could give me a break down in regards to comparative costs (parts, head work, cams, etc) for either engine build, time and expected power figures that would be great

thanks everyone

Meta

Also, anyone know of any reputable engine builders in either NSW, VIC, or QLD?

[Steampunk]

Wow! for that budget I would consider getting a built/"crate" engine from overseas, eg. Flyin Miata, RS Aizawa, Tomei etc. I wish I had that kind of money to throw at the WHOLE car, let alone just one part of it.

Can't help you much with advice on parts, but in Queensland we have MX-5Plus's servicing department, although I don't know if they will take on a full rebuild, it's worth contacting them.
Send a PM to forum name "MX-5Plus" and they should be able to help you out.
The only other place I know personally that does good engine rebuilds is U.M.R. Engines on the southside of Brisbane, but if it was me. I would stick with businesses that has experience with MX-5's.

[16bit]

for 10k you could get a really good Gary Stewart motor - he is in qld. ask the race guys for his details. neil may have them.

[Steampunk]

for 10k you could get a really good Gary Stewart motor - he is in qld. ask the race guys for his details. neil may have them.

AAWWwww! shite! *slaps forehead* How could I forget Gary Stewart?!
Send a PM to Novice1 as I have misplaced Gary's contact details.

[meta]

lol, i didn't realise 10k for the engine alone was that much?
I'm guessing by your reaction that it is

Either way, i wouldn't mind an RS Aizawa motor, after watching all of those touge max vids...damn that thing flies, but with insurance on the motor, shipping and other small costs, they'll soon outweigh an engine equally built to those standards in Aus, although the RS Aizawa motor would be priceless lol...i guess the same kinda of applies to the flyin miata engine, the packages are amazing, however with exchange rates and shipping costs, it'll get quite close to blowing my budget
especially for that FM stroker one....

Thanks for the input though mate, it's greatly appreciated

As for the engine builds in Brissy, if all goes well, i might be posted there after this little adventure, so is "Gary Steward" the name of the business or just the guy who builds them for someone?

[lil red rocket]

Meta
Don't forget its not just the engine. With more horse power comes upgrades to drive train, exhaust, cooling, brakin, suspension, chassis bracing, roll bar etc. Omitting any of these key elements will ultimately cause you grief.

I'm building a new reliable 200 RWHP Turbo Engine. It's a big learning experience. My engine builder is Hagans Performance in Brisbane. Cost will be about $6000 for the engine but I already have the Turbo, Intercooler, ECU, Radiator, Torsen LSD, button clutch etc and all the go-fast bits see The Little Red Rocket thread below.

If I was doing it from scratch and knowing what i know now I'd buy a NB8B, NB8A or NA8 (in that order), throw on a set of Teins & sways, a Torsen 4.1 and upgraded brakes and radiator and go down to AVO or Bullett for the engine, blower, ECU, exhaust and tune etc. Minimal pain and no mistakes - Start to finish in a few weeks. Or buy an SE or SP. No Compliance issues.

Other Options:
1) Super Charger: Bullet on the Gold Coast turn key solution.

2) Normally aspirated - Gary Srewart: - 240 Leroyd Rd Acacia Ridge Qld (in Brisbane)
Garry will probably talk you into an 1800 (where he does his best work) - he hates 1600's & Turbo's. He also has a dyno. Builds some of the best and fastest race engines in the country. Keep in mind the faster you go the less road manners you'll have - unless you fit a blower.

3) If I was going to do this in Sydney I would go to AVO for a turn key strong engine + Turbo solution. They have had many years experience with turbo's and MX-5's.

The thing about blowers is pick your engine tuner and ECU before you pick the solution. The Tuning and dyno time can easily cost $1000.

That's my 2 bobs worth.
Regards
Lil Red Rocket / Blue Chilli

[little decks]

I have to say that your best bet would be to do the 1800 upgrade straight away.

you could pretty much get away with some high comp pistons like the CPs... if its just naturally aspirated get some Eagle con-rods, and an ECU.

but before you do all this, the standard 1800 is more than capable of making over 80rwkw with a good cold air intake and a decent exhaust.

before doing an engine for the track i would look at putting some good suspension (ie. TEINs) in the car, as well as an LSD.
there is much time to be made from these simple upgrades. you'll make up more time on the track going quick around the corners and keeping your momentum going, rather than simply doing the point and fire with alot of HP, particularly in a car such as the MX-5

[Steampunk]

Gary Srewart: - 240 Leroyd Rd Acacia Ridge Qld (in Brisbane)

Literally 5 minutes drive from my place, so if you take it there, I would be more than happy to keep an eye out on it and report the progress, and if it's ready whilst you are still on your Tour of Duty then I think I can be talked into doing some road trials on your behalf

[Matty]

I have to say that your best bet would be to do the 1800 upgrade straight away.

QFT.
Spend $2K on an NB motor and you'll have as much power (and way more torque) than if you threw $5K at a 1.6 (and it will be just as legal, and infintely more streetable).

If you want any engine to last and be bulletproof, keep it as stock as possible.

[lil red rocket]

The whole question is how much power or how much have you got to spend!!!

A 1800 NB standard engine (from MX5 Plus in Brisbane or MX-5 mania in Sydney) with LOCK STEWART cold air, CES extractors and 2.25' system will give you typically 100RWHP.
Then throw suspension and brakes at it.

The next cab of the rank would be an SE

[stevesports]

i would recommend a engine transplant as the others have suggested. While you're at it, grab the brakes and gearbox as well. Add a lot of bracing, and voila, you should have a pretty good car.

[Jeo]

Just throwing it out there but the NA8 1.8L engine in my NA6 puts out 90kw atw with an enlarged airbox and crosspipe, 2.25" exhaust and an Autronic ECU. No internals, no CAI, stock headers. Still perfectly drivable across the entire range.

[meta]

Hi there everyone, thanks for the feedback

So many replies where to start? lol

So basically, i have considered the 1.8 in terms of potential power, costs and so forth and i'm still tossing up with it against the 1.6 in an N/A form, the supercharger idea, i'm thinking back on, i've spent a bit more time contacting some other owners on miata.net in regards to the upgrade and it's starting to sound like more trouble than worth in... ...so that idea might not work out lol

Anyway, back to the 1.8, i haven't looked into this conversion as much as i should have, but from my experiences of engine conversions, they can be a head ache at times (helped mates out on an sr20 conversion on a sil and another mate did an rb20) and the cost of getting a front cut (engine, loom, ecu, afm) and then doing the conversion itself (if done at a shop) would end up costing me a fair chunk of my budget for a stock motor.

I think roughly it ends up something like:

Nb8 engine (alone) - $1000-2000? - SVT: $2000+?
Wiring loom + ecu = $500+
Cross member? (i'm assuming i'll need to grab the 1.8 one) $250 - 500?
AFM = If it doesn't come with one? $300?
Gearbox: $650+ (not sure but can you retain the 5 speed? or is that only for the NA8 motors?)
Clutch: ? (arrrggghhh..the effort lol)
Labor = $2000+
Miscellaneous (the just incase i need a new tapper cover gasket, cam belt, etc) = ?

So in essence, looking at it, i could end up spending more than $5000+ for a stock motor? that's if all goes well of course.

Then when you factor in the extractors, 2.25 inch exhaust, hi-flow cat, maybe some heat coating or thermal wrap, and other basic upgrades i could be looking at another $1500?

So if i'm estimating right, i'd could be spending maybe up to 7g's+ (maybe more) for a motor that puts out 90kw - 100kw at the treads.

However, i'd still be stuck with a stock motor with basic mods?

If i'm wrong on costs or any other details are slighly off, please feel free to post away, as i haven't actually researched this fully, so i'm probably wrong here lol

I guess the dilemma i have is, I have the 1.6 now and for 7g's (maybe a little more), i could have it fully rebuilt with forged internals, cams, port/ polish, extractors, exhaust and so forth and still have cash to spare? (can someone say monster 4AGE? lol) as well as not having to stress to much about rewiring anything or changing the engine bay or gearbox as much

Although, power wise it puts out 80kw -90kw at best (estimating here), i'd still have a 100% rebuilt motor?
Where as the 1.8 would remain largely stock? and with 3k left, i could only do so much? (not saying that it would break down, just over time, i'm more likely to replace worn parts and so forth, so the costs would just continue...where as the rebuilt 1.6 i'd have some insurance on, in regards to long term reliability and peace of mind)

Anyway, please feel free to make further comments everyone, i needs as much feedback as possible, as you can see, i'm trying to gather as much info in terms of cost, time and so forth as i'm not keen on throwing away my hard earns to end up with a half ass engine that'll blow a gasket on the first right turn i take lol

Oh yeah, as for the other costs in regards to supporting mods, the $10 000 is "just" for the engine alone (i guess extractors and rx7 afm are also included) but i have already other funds allocated to suspension, brakes, wheels, tyres, ecu and so forth

This little red car is my pride enjoy, so i really want to do things right the first time around....i've had my time with jap imports and i'm tired of having to replace turbo seals, intercoolers and so forth, so honestly i just want a strong, reliable performance car...without the stigma or red and blue lights in my rear view mirror lol

[little decks]

it is quite a bit simpler to do the 1.6>1.8 conversion than you might think, most MX-5 workshops could do it for you quite easily.

the gearbox is no different, and the 1600 clutch can be used but probably better to upgrade, and im pretty sure the crossmember is the same.

the stock motor with intake and exhaust is already extremely reliable even for alot of trackwork. infact alot of low budget racecar guys run stock motors, even a couple of turbo racecars have run stock internals for a period of time.

upspecing the engine is only necessary for power in NA cars not reliability, they only becoming fragile with a snail bolted to the side.

[Matty]

NB motor ~$2000.

It will bolt straight in, just swap the alternator pulley if you're going to reuse the 1.6 alternator (1.8 runs a 4PK vs the 1.6 that uses a V belt). Use the (return type) fuel rail off the 1.6 and you'll be fine.

If you're going to tune it and run an ECU you don't need to worry about the adaptor gear, the aftermarket ECU can drive all the NB stuff, ditch the AFM, etc.

Exhaust header (the standard NB one is quite nice) - $200? Plus a couple of dollars to mate it to a 1.6 exhaust (or get a custom aftermarket system)

The 1.6 clutch can be reused, but get a 1.8 clutch and flywheel (you would need a new clutch if you were going to supercharge anyway).
The 1.6 gearbox can stay.
The 1.6 starter motor can be reused (it'll only bolt up with two bolts not three but this is reportedly OK).
No change to subframes or anything.

And if you're talking about things in your 'miscellaneous' list like cam cover gaskets, belts, etc, just remember that you'd need to do all of those in a rebuild...

Take it from someone who blew a lot of money on a 1.6, just go for the 1.8.