mx5cartalk.com

So What is involved in engineering a car in NSW? I looked on the RTA website and all they basically say is to visit one of their authorised centres.

But is actually involved?
What do they certify?
How much does it cost or is it a variable cost?
Where does the emission report come into it and is that the main thing?

As some of you may have guessed, I am contemplating turboing my NB. The whole emissions and engineering thing has kinda put me off a tiny bit. I am thinking of just waiting 18 months and upgrading to an SE now. If I can turbo my car economically (which I know I can) AND get through engineering without much fuss or cost, then it may be worth it.

I'd only like to know info for NSW. Not really into a comparison between states.

Thanks heaps guys,
Bevan

PS: I have tried searching but this forum only allows searching for posts up to a month old.


EDIT: Found the link. It's a great right-up by Sean:
http://www.aus-cartalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=19618

Bevan wrote:I am thinking of just waiting 18 months and upgrading to an SE now. If I can turbo my car economically (which I know I can) AND get through engineering without much fuss or cost, then it may be worth it.

Just get the SE Bevan, insurance and legality/Police/EPA wise it's the way to go...it's just the changeover figure that's going to hurt.

Craig wrote:

Bevan wrote:I am thinking of just waiting 18 months and upgrading to an SE now. If I can turbo my car economically (which I know I can) AND get through engineering without much fuss or cost, then it may be worth it.

Just get the SE Bevan, insurance and legality/Police/EPA wise it's the way to go...it's just the changeover figure that's going to hurt.

Yep I'm gonna have to agree with craig. I was thinking of upgrading from the NA into an SE, but for the same money I would of had a slower car. That was what stopped me. Had I of known of the flaming hoops the RTA make one jump through to pass emissions testing, I would of gotten the SE, but meh thats in the past

Pretty much anything different to stock needs to be engineered, except a few "self certify" items eg:
-Bigger rims, no more than 2" diameter, 1" width
-Lowering, so long as its more than 100mm off the ground (any less than 100mm cannot be engineered though)
-Any form of chassis bracing
-Minor adjustments to bodywork, eg fitting a body kit, new soft top, etc
-New lighting, so long as your car still conforms to the relevent ADR's
-Any driveline modification that does not affect the accuracy of the speedo (~5%), eg better tyres, new diff, new gearbox
-Any exhaust modification, so long as it doesn't excede 95db @ 30m, retains a cat converter

Basically small mods can be done urself and u dont need an engineer. Anything else you will need an engineer to check over and sign off on. The RTA lists all the approved engineers in NSW, but most of them I would avoid...eg one who lives near me (Hornsby) was wanting so much extra paperwork, that isnt required, whereas the one I'm using (In Wyong) knows his stuff, and if kinda lenient. For example, to engineer my car, he will look at the emissions report, to make sure that my car is still within the guidelines for a car built in 1994. (See below about emissions). He will then look at my car, to ensure I have a cat converter, do a noise test to make sure it isnt too loud (with silencers in I'll pass ), looks under the bonnet to make sure that my oil vent pipes still vent into the intake, and that my BOV is also plumbed back into the intake. Afterwards he will sign off on the certificate that my car passes. I then take that to the RTA, who will issue me with a 2nd complience plate to be fitted as close to the original as possible....hooray the car is legal!

Emissions testing. Technically, and car which has its ratio's of air/fuel modified needs to have an emissions test and be engineered. Even say fitting an RX7 AFM to an NA, or the "T" piece mod to the SP's count as a mod that need to be engineered AFAIK. Because with the turbo, you'll have a piggy back ECU (and obviously the turbo), you will need to get it tested. Tuning my car to be legal has been an absolute pain in the ass. Its been on the dyno for a few hours now, ironing out little bumps in the A/F ratio. I would of passed the previous test, if it werent for the fact that they decided it would be a good idea to put 3 big fans on my engine bay for half an hour, to send the car into cold start mode....where it runs an idle A/F ratio of about 12 so as to not stall (my engine doesnt like doing much when cold...)

Thats about all I can help with, and thats my understanding of it all, but I'm sure there'll be others (Sean?) who could also provide some better explanation of whats involved

while we are on it just wondering if the BD rollbars need to be engineer certified or not????

since it technically is chassis bracing

anyone have any info on this

and also wondering what the price is like to get engineered??

The BD rollbar is a grey area, because it isnt a roll cage (which yes does need to be engineered), but it isnt a style bar (which don't need to be engineered). Its halfway inbetween, so it would probably be easier to tell your insurance its just a big stylebar

Having said that when (if) my car gets engineered I'll be getting the roll bar put on there. Dunno how much it would cost though...mine is gonna cost roughly $600 to engineer, but thats because of all the other work...for just the roll bar I'm not sure

Thanks for your help guys. Appreciate it.

I thought engineering would be more than that!

BUT, if emmisions testing is such a bitch, then that would be the hardest. The amount of money put into all the tuning would probably make the project useless. Dammit.

Also, don't they also go over your car to make sure brakes, suspension etc are able to cope with the extra power?

just go & buy Gurglr instead Bevan. Nothing will come close.

err except maybe BJ.

Also, don't they also go over your car to make sure brakes, suspension etc are able to cope with the extra power?

Point them to the SP. All the suspension/brakes etc is standard NB8B. If it's good enough for Mazda it should be good enough for your engineer.

I was told Mazda spent over $30K to get the SP to pass the emissions tests. Admittedly new car emissions tests are harder to pass than those for used cars but $30K buys an aweful lot of dyno time.

Garry wrote:

Also, don't they also go over your car to make sure brakes, suspension etc are able to cope with the extra power?

Point them to the SP. All the suspension/brakes etc is standard NB8B. If it's good enough for Mazda it should be good enough for your engineer.

I was told Mazda spent over $30K to get the SP to pass the emissions tests. Admittedly new car emissions tests are harder to pass than those for used cars but $30K buys an aweful lot of dyno time.

I'm surprised it was so cheap!
I know that when Ford Australia decided to bring the Mustang over here, a few years ago, that they spent $12.5Million to engineer it for RHD and for it to pass emissions.
That's a lot of dough to swap over the steering wheel.

Before they were released here, I was quite keen to buy a convertible, but after I sat in the driver's seat, I just went NO WAY!

I posted a MASSIVE topic on here about this a while bak with all teh pointe3res, try searching for it. If you have no luck let me know I'm sure I have it csomewhere.

Sean wrote:I posted a MASSIVE topic on here about this a while bak with all teh pointe3res, try searching for it. If you have no luck let me know I'm sure I have it csomewhere.

I've tried searching but the search on this forum only allows you to go back 1 month...

I'll have a look manually. Do you know when it was? 2 months, 6 months?

Thanks mate.

Oh My God! WOOHOO!!! I found it!!!

EDIT: here is the right link... http://www.aus-cartalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=19618

Believe it or not, I found it through google. I'm going to start a new thread on how to do a search of aus-cartalk useing Google.

Haven't read it yet, i'm just excited that i've found it after so much searching! I'll send the link to the mods that be to stick it in the Tech Archive.

Wow, that is certainly a very detailed and great read. The only thing it really leaves out is the cost of the engineer's time and certification, which I suppose varies depending on who you go to.

No doubt, it would be beneficial to know someone in this area as well.

Two interesting points are these:
3- Custom kit where you do everything yourself and keep all of the factory ECU and emissions gear- Doesn't require emissions test if your engineer will sign off as it running all stock gear. A lot of cars down here are engineered this way, and then have aftermarket ECUs fitted, so technically they are not legal, but the cops/RTA need to know and prove it.

4- Custom kit with aftermarket ECU/modified emissions gear. This is the Mac Daddy of modification and engineering. Basically you you use the stock engine (or a newer one) as a base and go crazy modifying it, changing anythign you want, adding turbo etc, aftermarket ECU, big injectors and anything else you might want to do. The downside of this option is that you DO require emissions testing, the upside is that if you can get it to pass, she's legal pretty much forever - The best way to go in my opinion.


Does this mean you can whack a turbo on running low PSI with standard ECU and you are fine?

Bevan wrote:Does this mean you can whack a turbo on running low PSI with standard ECU and you are fine?

Hehe you posted the wrong link....

But in answer to the above - It'd be a time bomb, and most engineers have tightened up on letting ANYTHING past with no emissions test

Sean wrote:

Bevan wrote:Does this mean you can whack a turbo on running low PSI with standard ECU and you are fine?

Hehe you posted the wrong link....

Ah crap. Here is the right link:

http://www.aus-cartalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=19618

I bumped it up to the top for Okibi to put it onto the Tech Archive section. I t resides in there now.