NC/NC2 CAI

[NitroDann]

Oh I'm sure they are already convinced, it's just that
1. there are better initial gains using bolt on equipment Cam are bolt on
2. many of us track in classes where internal mods are prohibited. a few percent, yes
3. most of us use our cars as daily drives and most cams giving worthwhile improvement will not be a good daily. This notion is exactly the missinformed, poorly researched, wrong information that gets thrown around that I was referring to.

Dann

[Sailor]

Oh I'm sure they are already convinced, it's just that
1. there are better initial gains using bolt on equipment Cam are bolt on
2. many of us track in classes where internal mods are prohibited. a few percent, yes
3. most of us use our cars as daily drives and most cams giving worthwhile improvement will not be a good daily. This notion is exactly the missinformed, poorly researched, wrong information that gets thrown around that I was referring to.

Dann

1. Yes Cams are bolt on......You ignore the fact that there are better initial gains to be made by other more easily installed bolt ons ...
I guess you could say that heads are bolt on as well, but until those more easily installed, better bang for buck bolt ons are installed then they are almost worthless.....but you know that already eh!
2. Indeed....but still worth considering.
3. Dann, you seem to think that you are one of the few that have dríven cars with cams. I'd suggest that you talk to a few of the older NC drivers (for a start) and have a little chat about their knowledge of modified cars and engines.
We came from a time when emission rules either didn't or barely existed and modified engines were de rigeur on daily drives.
I drove a Cooper S with full race cam, 45mm Dellorto, 3:1 extractors, modified head, competition clutch and straight cut gears/drop gears and ZF locker.
It was a daily drive which would not survive in todays traffic.
I'll say it again MOST cams giving WORTHWHILE improvement will not be a good daily drive.....especially in todays stop start traffic.

[Apu]

My 2000/2001 Alfa 146 had a lightened flywheel and cams and was very driveable as a daily...in Singapore traffic! They gave a decent gain, had a slightly lumpy idle, but no big deal.

Both my MX5 and Integra Type R currently have lightened flywheels and I will likely go with cams on the Type R. Would have done so on the MX5 if not for the VVT.

As long as you don't go silly with the cams, they are reasonably driveable. I did need a extra vacuum tank for the brakes in the Alfa but don't think that will be an issue here as we don't have many spiralling car parks here, unlike Singapore.

[Dan]

Hahaha,

Good luck convincing even 5% of the mx5 community that headwork will help, most dont even believe that cams give worthwhile gains hahahaha.

Seriously,
Dann

Oh I'm sure they are already convinced, it's just that
1. there are better initial gains using bolt on equipment
2. many of us track in classes where internal mods are prohibited.
3. most of us use our cars as daily drives and most cams giving worthwhile improvement will not be a good daily.

I agree with Dann, Cam’s are probably the best improvement you can make on a boosted car in particular but broadly speaking all cars and once you have all the normal supporting mods sorted it will certainly be better than an Intake.

Daniel Deckers car pretty much speaks for itself in the concept of maximising flow for great results.

Not sure what class you run but Cam’s are free for Type 2 car’s in Supersprints which is what I think the Modified NC class is based on for the club (Type 1 is a moot point because you couldn’t change the intake anyway).

Why do I say Cam’s make a difference? Here’s my personal experience in the Evo world, below is a comparison between another car with no cam’s and my car with Cam’s with the same mods/tuner/dyno (pretty much we just followed the usual recipe with one deviation from each other), as you can see it made power everywhere ☺


I do agree on the point of street-ability if you don’t want to be whoop-whoop-whoop’ing around the neighbourhood but if you already have a loud exhaust at least it will sound mean rather than just loud.

[NitroDann]

You come from a time without computer aided design, without dyno's, without wideband oxygen sensors, and with carburetors, no wonder you have poor experiences witth drivability.

Dann

[Dan]

You come from a time without computer aided design, without dyno's, without wideband oxygen sensors, and with carburetors, no wonder you have poor experiences witth drivability.

Dann

How exactly does the NC set it's idle?

Is it like other modern cars where you set up a target idle RPM and the computer figures out how to get to the target RPM and keep it at a 14.7 AFR? Does this work ok with Cams?

[Sailor]

You come from a time without computer aided design, without dyno's, without wideband oxygen sensors, and with carburetors, no wonder you have poor experiences witth drivability.

Dann

Dann...I'm not living in the dark ages!

Fact is you stated that the only 5% of the MX5 community could be convinced that headwork and cams would be worthwhile.


I stated quite simply and clearly that they are convinced BUT that other bolt on mods are a better option.
Hell even a simple timing alteration will get good gains on many cars including the MX5.

Cams and headwork will get you minimal gains on a car with std inlet and exhaust systems.
They are not cost effective on std cars especially if you need the pay to have it done properly.
Of course the EVOs etc will get great gains from cams and heads, they are after all detuned track cars.

I know

[NitroDann]

I dissagree with everything you just said.

Dann

[Sailor]

Good for you....

[Dan]

I stated quite simply and clearly that they are convinced BUT that other bolt on mods are a better option.
Hell even a simple timing alteration will get good gains on many cars including the MX5.

You’d be crazy to do Cams without a tune and a full exhaust and I’m sure no-one would argue that point.

You say other bolt on mods are a better option, what would you do after a tune and full exhaust rather than Cams?

Of course the EVOs etc will get great gains from cams and heads, they are after all detuned track cars.

The concept of improving efficiency by installing cam's remains exactly the same.

[Sailor]

Exactly Dan.
A lot more than 5% of MX5 owners would be happy to agree with you.
Point is they realise enough power without headwork and cams, just the bolt ons.

AFTER I've got good power with bolt ons I'd be looking at matching inlet and exhaust tracts to the head.
God I've seen gasket sets that have a smaller ID than either the head or the manifold.

Sorry I need to clarify that ...Just the bolt ons that don't require dismantling the engine.

Yes indeed...the concept remains EXACTLY the same and I could assure you that more than 5% of the MX5 community knows that...they don't need to be convinced, BUT, as you said you'd be crazy to do headwork or cams without having the breathing overhead that something like an EVO has.

[NitroDann]

My last na6.

Stock bottom end, balanced but that doesnt change anything.

Cams, portwork, intake exhaust, lifters, ecu.

The car pulled past these 'intake exhaust class destroying power NCs', walked a stock NA6 in 6th, with the stock car in 4th at a 100kmh roll, and had stock shaped torque curve.

Fact is, intake is loose change, exhaust EVERYONE has already, cams then add all that performance again without affecting driveability ar all, and double that if you want, with a different to stock powerband, but still perfectly streetable.

Dann