New head bolts??

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wozzah1975
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby wozzah1975 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:06 am

project.r.racing wrote:what makes a good head gasket? I've seen BP ones from $20 to $200, normal to cosmetic? How do I spot a good one?



I use the OEM type MLS gasket, since changing to the ARP studs I am yet to have one fail. The Cometic one is also excellent. Steer away from anything cheap and composit material.

Cheers
Woz
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wozzah1975
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby wozzah1975 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:16 am

NitroDann wrote:use OEM, they never fail even at 400whp.

Dann


Dann, thats not completely true. My last engine with the OE bolts showed signs of movement after a full season of racing, and also had a head gasket failure. In my experience under certain conditions the OE bolts will cause movement, especially when put in a track day or race situation.

Granted, I have seen big HP engines use the std bolts and get away with it, but put in an enviroment of constant/more than normal punishment you will have issues.

Cheers,
Woz
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project.r.racing
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby project.r.racing » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:23 am

Cheers Warren and Dann for the info.

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gslender
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby gslender » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:24 am

wozzah1975 wrote:
NitroDann wrote:use OEM, they never fail even at 400whp.

Dann


Dann, thats not completely true. My last engine with the OE bolts showed signs of movement after a full season of racing, and also had a head gasket failure. In my experience under certain conditions the OE bolts will cause movement, especially when put in a track day or race situation.

Granted, I have seen big HP engines use the std bolts and get away with it, but put in an enviroment of constant/more than normal punishment you will have issues.

Cheers,
Woz


Woz, I read Dan's post to be referring to OEM gasket, not bolts.

G
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gslender
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby gslender » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:46 pm

Just looking at the ARP head bolts, they seem to come with bolts and nuts separately - assuming all the photos of the kit are correct.
Image

So is the view that you screw in the bolt, and the torque up the bolt? What's the process? I'm guessing you use the two nut trick to torque up the bolt into the block first, and then remove the two nuts and torque up the single nut last - is that about right?
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NitroDann
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby NitroDann » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:48 pm

gasket is correct.

Ive used arp bolts on every performance build.

Dann
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sailaholic
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby sailaholic » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:10 pm

No you don't really torque the studs in, though there is an Allen key hole in one end to do put them in. For memory its finger tight or finger tight then back slightly. Instructions are in the box.

The point is that you a) get maximum thread depth in the block. B) all the torque going to the nut on the top should be creating the clamp force. Ie no losses due to tight block threads giving the correct torque but reduced clamp pressure.

Be aware you will need a m11x? (I posted it in one of project r threads) tap to clean the thread. Also the arp nuts are actually 1/2 inch not 12mm like the factory head bolts. So make sure you have a socket to suit.

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timk
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby timk » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:51 pm

Also the torque rating they (ARP) tell you to use is batsh*t insane!

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Re: New head bolts??

Postby sailaholic » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:45 am

timk wrote:Also the torque rating they (ARP) tell you to use is batsh*t insane!


Yup due to the mentioned size change I didn't have a 12 point, half inch, half inch drive socket so had to use a 3/8 drive socket and adapter.

I got about half way through tightening then got a very in comfortable yielding feeling. Check all the setting were ok and kept going....... To find it was the little 3/8 extension twisting off!

Swapped from the Kmart one to the aid sidchrome one and had no issues!

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gslender
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby gslender » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:11 am

Interesting!

Thanks guys.

G
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wozzah1975
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby wozzah1975 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:29 am

gslender wrote:
wozzah1975 wrote:
NitroDann wrote:use OEM, they never fail even at 400whp.

Dann


Dann, thats not completely true. My last engine with the OE bolts showed signs of movement after a full season of racing, and also had a head gasket failure. In my experience under certain conditions the OE bolts will cause movement, especially when put in a track day or race situation.

Granted, I have seen big HP engines use the std bolts and get away with it, but put in an enviroment of constant/more than normal punishment you will have issues.

Cheers,
Woz


Woz, I read Dan's post to be referring to OEM gasket, not bolts.

G


Sorry! My bad :)

Cheers
Woz
BP DOHC Mk1 Escort race car. Big Valve head, Cosworth Cams, Spool Rods, Nissan Pistons
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby tbro » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:14 pm

Stolen from The Engine Builder Mag














Ten Head Bolt Installation Tips



Head bolts are truly one of the most critical fasteners in any engine. Consequently, it’s extremely important that all the head bolts be in perfect condition and are installed and lubricated properly so they are not overloaded.


By Larry Carley






The following are useful tips for technicians and engine specialists who spend any time sealing up engines.

1. Make sure all the head bolts are in perfect condition with clean, undamaged threads. Dirty or damaged threads can give false torque readings as well as decrease a bolt’s clamping force by as much as 50%! Wire brush all bolt threads, carefully inspect each one, and replace any that are nicked, deformed or worn. If a bolt doesn’t thread into a hole smoothly with finger force alone, there is a problem.


On aftermarket studs or bolts, never use a die to recut the threads. Most have “rolled” threads, which are stronger than standard threads. Use a thread chaser to clean up the threads.


2. Dirty or deformed hole threads in the engine block can reduce clamping force the same as dirty or damaged threads on the bolts. Run a bottoming tap down each bolt hole in the block. The tops of the holes should also be chamfered so the uppermost threads won’t pull above the deck surface when the bolts are tightened.

Finally, clean all holes to remove any debris. If the block deck has been resurfaced and you are using studs rather than head bolts, chamfer the top of each hole


3. For head bolts that screw into blind holes, lightly lubricate the bolt threads as well as the underside of the bolt heads with engine oil. Make sure the bolts do not bottom out or hydrolock because of oil trapped in the blind hole.

For head bolts that extend into a coolant jacket, coat the threads with a flexible sealer. Failure to coat the threads may allow coolant to leak past the bolt.

4. Because TTY head bolts are permanently deformed once they are tightened, they should not be reused. Reusing TTY bolts will cause them to stretch further, which increases the risk of breakage. A stretched bolt also will not hold the same torque load as before, which may cause a loss of clamping force resulting in head gasket leakage.

5. Check bolt lengths. Make sure you have the correct length bolts for the application and for each hole location (some holes require longer or shorter bolts than others). If a bolt is too short and only engages a few threads in the block, it may pull the threads out of the block.


Bolts should also be measured or compared to one another to check for stretch. Any bolt found to be stretched must be replaced because 1) it may be dangerously weak, 2) it won’t hold torque properly, and 3) it may bottom out when installed in a blind hole.


6. When installing head bolts in aluminum cylinder heads, hardened steel washers must be used under the bolt heads to prevent galling of the soft aluminum and to help distribute the load. Make sure the washers are positioned with their rounded or chamfered side up, and that there is no debris or burrs under the washers.


7. Resurfacing a cylinder head decreases its overall height, so be sure to check bolt lengths to make sure they won’t bottom out in blind holes. If a bolt bottoms out, it will apply little or no clamping force on the head, which may allow the gasket to leak.

If a head has been milled and one or more head bolts may be dangerously close to bottoming out, the problem can be corrected by either using hardened steel washers under the bolts to raise them up, or by using a copper head gasket shim in conjunction with the new head gasket to restore proper head height.


8. Always look up the specified tightening sequence and recommended head bolt torque values for an engine before installing the head gasket. Never guess. Complete cylinder head torque specifications for domestic and import vehicles can be found in service manuals and torque tables published by gasket manufacturers.


9. Use an accurate torque wrench to tighten standard-type head bolts in three to five incremental steps following the recommended sequence and torque specs for the application. Tightening the bolts down gradually creates an even clamping force on the gasket and reduces head distortion. It’s a good idea to double check the final torque readings on each head bolt to make sure none have been missed and that the bolts are retaining torque normally.


If a bolt is not coming up to normal torque or is not holding a reading, it means trouble. Either the bolt is stretching or the threads are pulling out of the block.


With TTY head bolts, use a “Torque-To-Angle Indicator” gauge with a torque wrench to achieve proper bolt loading. Don’t guess on the angle. Be exact.


10. If a head gasket requires retorquing (most do not), run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature (usually 10 to 15 minutes), then shut it off. Retighten each head bolt in the same sequence as before while the engine is still warm. If the engine has an aluminum cylinder head or block, however, don’t retorque the head bolts until the engine has cooled back down to room temperature.


On some applications with retorque-style head gaskets, it may be necessary to retorque the head a third time after a specified time or mileage interval due to the design of the engine. Follow the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations.



Did You Know? In an engine with 4” cylinder bores and peak combustion pressures of around 1,100 psi, each cylinder exerts about 13,827 lbs. of pressure against the cylinder head at full throttle. In fact, head bolts may have to handle loads of more than 5 tons per bolt at wide-open throttle!
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gslender
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Re: New head bolts??

Postby gslender » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:50 pm

What a great post! Thanks bud!

G
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