Fitting the Commodore V6 S/C into the NA

[wozzah1975]

A bit of searching...

A B6 dohc engine AND transmission with turbo fitted weighs 184kg

BP DOHC with Intake manifold, fuel injection or carb, distributor, alternator, water pump, oil pan, valve covers, A/C compressor, plugs and wires, exhaust manifold, belts and starter. Neither engine has a power steering pump. Flywheel's are off, fluids are drained, engine mounts are off. Weighs 131kg

I'd be guessing the B6 is around 10kg lighter than the BP listed above, so around 121kg

A early V6 engine with NOTHING fitted is 170kg, with accs fitted around the 200kg mark, supercharged version around 10-20kg heavier again.

The Alloy tech is only 10kg lighter than the old cast early type engine

Interestingly enough, a LS7 is 225kg and a hell of alot more engine than any of the V6's

So I still stand by my original statement, its a lump for an MX5


Woz

[zossy1]

VSB14 is the Federal standard. If you want to do this in NSW you must comply with VSI06:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/ ... v_2007.pdf

(See page 3).

From VSB-14

[img]...[/img]

Rotary engines have their displacement doubled, sorry Dann

Taking an NA MX-5 as 950kg that means the biggest N/A engine is 3.8L and biggest F/I is 2.6125L (so a 13b turbo would be OK)

As someone doing a V6 swap which doesn't require a complete re-wire of the front end, custom driveshaft, diff support, PPF delete, gearbox mounts (all of which you'd need for a commodore V6), I'm going to say unless you have heaps of experience don't even think about it! It will take a lot longer than you think.
Having said that, I'll be keen to see how the car turns out if you go ahead. Good luck!

[Beelzeboss]

I'm sure the NSW RMS accepted VSB-14 early this year, along with the introduction of the VSCCS. If you watch the meeting between the ACMC and the RMS which happened in february, particularly the question time one (though it's rather dry), they certainly say that VSB-14 is applicable in NSW.









Not sure if this has been posted on the forum before, I thought it was common knowledge. Maybe I should start a new topic.

[Lokiel]

In my opinion....

Why would you bother? It's a truck load of work for an engine that technically is dinosaur, and really not that good.

I have built a few V6 engines for various conversions (gemini, WB ute) for obvious reasons (better than the original and easy to do becuase of conversion parts readily available).

I highly doubt that the engine weights quoted earlier in the thread are correct, I'd be keen to see the complete V6 (with supercharger fitted and all ancilleries) compared to say a BPT (with turbo and the same ancilleries fitted). I think you'll find the V6 is substancially heavier, as will the gearbox that you have to mate up to it. It will make the car drive like crap.

A standard supercharged V6 makes around 140rwkw on the dyno I use. With an overdrive pulley kit and extractors it takes them to around 155-160rwkw. With heads and cam it takes them to around 180-190rwkw. Thats the point where you reach the limit of flow on the factory type supercharger. They do make a reasonable amount of torque, but that will be wasted on a light car like an MX5. I have seen one of these engines with good internal work and the right hang ons make 260rwkw, BUT is was ALOT of work, and expensive and utilised very little of the original engine (crank, block and heads). These engines also have a very nasty habit of breaking crankshafts when pushed (if you've ever seen one you'll know why). You're also very limited on valve size and port size unless you buy aftermarket heads out of the states. I would think in an MX5 engine bay that the extractors will be limited by the room you have to work, so anything you make will be a compromise in relation to power unless you butcher the car.

My point is a decent BPT will make the same power figures with the right work, and be reliable.
If you're intending on putting a V6 in in standard form it only makes 140rwkw. My naturally aspirated BP makes that amount of power (granted, the torque is more but as stated earlier wasted in a light car like an mx5). A BPT will make much more than that with very little work, up to 200rwkw with a basic package, and plenty more if you want to spend the time and money. It will be a fraction of the time wasted fitting the V6, and half the price.

I'd almost go as far to say that well set up BPT in an MX5 would run rings around equivelant Buick V6 conversion around a race track. I'd almost bet my left nut on it

If you want to fit something a little out of the box, then at least look at something half decent an worth the time and money in converting. Don't get me wrong, the V6 has it's place, but it's not in an MX5.

Cheers
Woz

+1 to all the above.

It will be much harder than you anticipate due to the amount of custom fabrication alone and right up front you know that there are better and easier alternatives available.

ie. Why would you do this?

[zossy1]

There is no reference to either VSI06 or VSB14 in any legislation or regulations I can find in NSW, so I can't confirm this.

Still, Duncan Gay should know. Strange he hasn't put it in any legislation or regulations.

Does anyone know where this has been set out?

If it is VSB14, hmm... well a 2JZ MX5 still isn't possible, but a 1JZ might be...

[sailaholic]

Surely the 1j would be even longer than the chev ls blocks.

A 6 with doing would be the m tuned 3.2 from an e36, (or 46, but sooo much harder with the extra electrics I would think..)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[dave2221]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine

[zossy1]

If it is VSB14, hmm... well a 2JZ MX5 still isn't possible, but a 1JZ might be...

I should point out that, whilst both of these swaps have been done (at least in the US and UK), I would not consider them myself unless I was building a drag car... and I like corners too much for that!

[cooper1896]

f20c is the obvious answer, and its not that hard.

Dann

Little off topic, but I have a friend with a supercharged K20A&corresponding gearbox installed inside a Ph1 lotus elise.
I am luck enough to been for a ride in the car and it is unbelievable.
At the time I it was pushing out 226rwkw's I believe.
It's a lambo killer.

If I was going to do a supercharger build a F20c would be it!

EDIT: just googled a F20c and it weights 178kg's inc gearbox and all accesories! according to some guy who's doing an install on miata.net

end hijack.

[wozzah1975]

I think a really good conversion for an early type car at the moment would be a duratec, 2 or 2.3 litre, or an FE3. If you want serious grunt turbo it.

If it were mine, I think I'd go with the duratec, had a look at a cylinder head a few weeks ago, lots of potential. The Caterham R500 superlight has this engine, making 263hp. RWD gearbox options available also. Bit of mucking around converting it I would suggest, but loads of potential.

Cheers
Woz

[bruce]

As people have said, the v6 s/c is not legal, plus it's a rubbish engine. How many v6 s/c Commodores exist today?
There is a world of more reliable Japanese engines to choose from.

[Caffeine]

I think a really good conversion for an early type car at the moment would be a duratec, 2 or 2.3 litre, or an FE3. If you want serious grunt turbo it.

If it were mine, I think I'd go with the duratec, had a look at a cylinder head a few weeks ago, lots of potential. The Caterham R500 superlight has this engine, making 263hp. RWD gearbox options available also. Bit of mucking around converting it I would suggest, but loads of potential.

Cheers
Woz

Or just pull the running gear out of an NC Duratec 2L == NC MZR 2L

[bruce]

Now that's an idea. I haven't seen any NC front cuts for sale? I guess when you crash an NC (even in the rear) there's not enough left.

[wozzah1975]

I think a really good conversion for an early type car at the moment would be a duratec, 2 or 2.3 litre, or an FE3. If you want serious grunt turbo it.

If it were mine, I think I'd go with the duratec, had a look at a cylinder head a few weeks ago, lots of potential. The Caterham R500 superlight has this engine, making 263hp. RWD gearbox options available also. Bit of mucking around converting it I would suggest, but loads of potential.

Cheers
Woz

Or just pull the running gear out of an NC Duratec 2L == NC MZR 2L

BINGO

Would be nice to see a 2.3 one done though......

Woz

[Charlie Brown]

I think a really good conversion for an early type car at the moment would be a duratec, 2 or 2.3 litre, or an FE3. If you want serious grunt turbo it.

If it were mine, I think I'd go with the duratec, had a look at a cylinder head a few weeks ago, lots of potential. The Caterham R500 superlight has this engine, making 263hp. RWD gearbox options available also. Bit of mucking around converting it I would suggest, but loads of potential.

Cheers
Woz

Or just pull the running gear out of an NC Duratec 2L == NC MZR 2L

Sorry guys you're forgetting one real important point with the NC engine, turbo charging and RHD MX5s.
Im sure it would be the same in a NA as the NC, the turbo won't clear the steering shaft.

Pick another engine with the exhaust ports on the passenger side.