na6 performance

[Si.G]

I am building a new B6 motor as follows
- knige edged crank
- wiseco 11:1 pistons
- carillo rods
- Billet oil pump
- light CroMo flywheel (4.8Kg)
- head work, hopefully with solid lifters
- cams, not sure what i am goin for yet

I already have itbs ecu etc. I hope to have it done in the next 2 months - keep an eye on my garage thread. http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40374&start=75

I will be interested to see what it makes, I am not looking for massive figues, if I get 95-110rkw, I will be happy because that is like a 50% power increase over what i have now.

But as others have said, the shopping list above is not cheap! Did not go for a turbo myself because of my driving style, I have broken a few turbo motors in the past.

Si.

[StanTheMan]

If I was to do it again.

I'd just open the intake.
open up exhaust,
slightly aggressive cams. probably 264 duration or something. 272 were awesome though but judst enough to give the standard ECU a little trouble with consistent idle

I wouldn't worry about a ECU

depending on your extractors the cams will just enhance the extractors. Most likely will become very lively over & above 5k rpm enough to put a serious smile on most punters.

dyno figures don't reveal drivability, Idle or fuel consumption.

my B6 had 106 rwkw with extractors, full mania intake. Tighe 272 duration cams with an adaptronic ECU.
what it doesn't tell you is the drivability.
drivability improved 10 fold when the adaptronic was taken out & standard ecu plugged back in. Fuel consumption halved & it would idle.
The only thing I regret is selling the cams.

[funmx5]

thanks for the feedback ,i could quite easily go turbo route but i am setting up the car for my son to do some motor sport events in near future (hes 11 now) so i am doing some forward planning!

[Steampunk]

drivability improved 10 fold when the adaptronic was taken out & standard ecu plugged back in. Fuel consumption halved & it would idle.
.

That's very interesting indeed as it goes against all convention and I would have thought it would have no hope with 272 cams.
Did you also have adjustable cam-gears to set the timing spot-on?

[StanTheMan]

Yes I did adjustable cam gears. I did muck around with the adv/retard a lot. If memory serves me correct In the end I had it set at +4 int. +2 exhaust . But I really can't be too sure. I need to find some notes. It did stabilize the idle a little. A progressive Tpm & intake temp helped also . But these had to be changed back when the standard Ecu & afm went back in.
I left the cam sprockets untouched. But I recon dead on 0 would have been ok.

Idle was ok. A tiny bit erratic. Once dríven for 15-20 min. Became a little erratic. It idled beautifully on about 1100 rpm. It occasionally went under 1000 and it felt like it would stall any minute.

On the OEM Ecu it just lacked a tiny bit of urgency at the top end. Compared to when the adaptronic was fitted. But it was still awesome.

The most frustrating thing with the adaptronic was when cruising along you'd get these hesitations .
I'd then get on the pc & try to tune these out. I then would inevetebly muck something Up elsewhere along the revline.
I'm no expert. I've only dríven 2 cars where I can honestly say. I couln't feel anything worth criticizing along the entire rev line.
And both those cars had an incredible amount of dyno hrs on them.

For a race car. It's worth while because its either all or nothing. Unlike a steetcar where drivability comes important.
I like the idear of a piggy back. Where idle & a few other things still get taken care of by the stock ecu


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[jerrah]

If I do another track day with the club, I'll try and remember that (and that blue NC and silver evo should remember this)

HP isn't the be all end all, Torque and where you get it is what will get your NA going.

No doubt your car is fast (and much faster than me) but my comment was in relation to the OP's question "what sort of rear wheel figures are people pulling out?" and spending "big bucks" on little gains. I've never seen a N/A NA6 put out FI region figures of HP or torque.

That said forced induction seems to cause trouble on track cars. Well built N/A will just do endless laps without issues.

[clubman7]

Thats one thing going for the B6 is as a stock engine, i haven't had one drama at any stage in four years of competition.
Engine has done a dozen sprints and probably twenty hill climbs with out one engine fault.
Hopefully it will remain as reliable with the extra work done.

[NitroDann]

there is not much reason you couldnt make 200 FWHP but no one does. Mine is about as fast as a street NA 1.6 ever gets. Ill dyno it soon and post here.

As for stan the mans experience, Im here to tell you that something was totally wrong, I have a much more agressive setup than you did and on 550cc injectors with e85, tuned myself, no way near a dno and mine drives like stock almost except for the first 30 second where i cant escape from huge injectors only using 1% duty cycle and stock ignition system trying to fire e85.

Dann

[jerrah]

Stantheman were you using a variable TPS or just MAP? I find MAP only on my megasquirt makes for symptoms that you describe.

[meta]

This is quite interesting, the only question i have for everyone is which B6 motor are you using and does it make any difference? I have a short crank eunos motor sitting idly by ready for some work, but i'm curious to know if its worth doing it due to the potential wood drift issue?

[NitroDann]

Use the one you have, they are all the same with the exception of long nose/short nose.

I had my nose come loose twice, i firmly believe that this causes the damage not anything else. it was because when the water pump leaks it leaks into the crank bolt hole and rusts the threads and it then becomes loose. then all your accessories are hanging off the tip of the shaft and it breaks just before the pulley falls off. I cleaned my threads off all the rust and then locktited the bolt in never ever had another issue.

Dann

[de Bounce]

thanks for the feedback ,i could quite easily go turbo route but i am setting up the car for my son to do some motor sport events in near future (hes 11 now) so i am doing some forward planning!

Is the build really for your 11 year old son

My recommendation is to fit a roll bar and leave the rest stock, then grow the car as his abilities and commitment progresses.

At 12 he can get a Junior CAMS licence and start doing Motorkhana's where he will learn car control and car placement.
Modifications are neither required or beneficial, even at the top level!
This will also be the litmus test to see if he is actually interested in motor sport!

At 14 he can start looking at track work, again the biggest improvement will come from the driver and track time (bum in seat).
The best way to maximise track time is to have a reliable car that can take the pounding without the down time from technical issues.

The stock MX5 has proven it is up to the task.
Even a stock MX5 consumes a fair budget with a healthy appetite for tyres, brakes, and fuel.
Add entry fees, accommodation and extra servicing, suddenly motor sport at the grass roots level can become a fairly big money pit.
All before you start tipping extra money in for mods you might or might not need.

My 2c worth.
It was my approach with my daughter who was all enthusiastic when she was 11-12, at 16, motor sport is about 5th on her priority list.

Each to their own

[Si.G]

thanks for the feedback ,i could quite easily go turbo route but i am setting up the car for my son to do some motor sport events in near future (hes 11 now) so i am doing some forward planning!

Is the build really for your 11 year old son

My recommendation is to fit a roll bar and leave the rest stock, then grow the car as his abilities and commitment progresses.

At 12 he can get a Junior CAMS licence and start doing Motorkhana's where he will learn car control and car placement.
Modifications are neither required or beneficial, even at the top level!
This will also be the litmus test to see if he is actually interested in motor sport!

At 14 he can start looking at track work, again the biggest improvement will come from the driver and track time (bum in seat).
The best way to maximise track time is to have a reliable car that can take the pounding without the down time from technical issues.

The stock MX5 has proven it is up to the task.
Even a stock MX5 consumes a fair budget with a healthy appetite for tyres, brakes, and fuel.
Add entry fees, accommodation and extra servicing, suddenly motor sport at the grass roots level can become a fairly big money pit.
All before you start tipping extra money in for mods you might or might not need.

My 2c worth.
It was my approach with my daughter who was all enthusiastic when she was 11-12, at 16, motor sport is about 5th on her priority list.

Each to their own

That is some sound advice right there !!

Plus you don't need 1000rwkw to be competitive in a MX5 - let the chassis do the work and look there before power, a much cheaper route. My motor is tired and is pushing out a massive 70rwkw, but is still competitive in the club scene. Still I think a stock NA6 will be perfect for learning - very predictable and progressive - most importantly loads of fun!!
Si.

[funmx5]

get him ready for avalon then de bounce!!with a stocky

[de Bounce]

get him ready for avalon then de bounce!!with a stocky

Avalon is just one of our playgrounds!
More info about Motorkhana is available HERE and HERE
This document sums it up nicely, written by Bill McCarthy.
If you are still interested, send me a PM