Where to buy valve springs

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manga_blue
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby manga_blue » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:03 pm

You've got a one track mind Dann! :D

I compete in the limited power classes, under 90rwkw. I need to keep it comfortably below that and maximise the power band across the range instead. Good torque bogging it out of critical slow third gear corners like T2 at Wakie, T2 and the Kink at Winton or out of Siberia help laptimes as much as screaming at the top.

It also relates to where I live. The MX5 is a great B-road tourer in 3rd and 4th when you've got the grunt from 3000 to 4500. The F-cam/Poncam is the cam Mazda should have put in them in the first place instead of strangling them with a commuter cam.

Besides which I've done my time working out how to get the new girlfriend home when I've got half a piston embedded in the inlet port. :oops:
’95 NA8

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NitroDann
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby NitroDann » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:13 pm

hahahaha, you rock.

Go with some 265's with tonnes of lift and massive ramp rate, and live with needing to check clearances every 20k.

Similar to my last cams, 275 though those were, and they made more torque everywhere than stock by tonnes.

Dann
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speed wrote:If I was to do it again, I wouldn't even consider the supercharger.

project.r.racing
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby project.r.racing » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:19 am

Maruha F cam dont have the same BCD as stock.

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wozzah1975
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby wozzah1975 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:51 am

manga_blue wrote:I'm learning more about springs than I ever wanted to know. Firstly, let me tell you that spring retainers can wear a lot when they've got a broken spring bouncing around underneath them. The retainer wear is a consequence, not a cause, of spring breaking.

I had an interesting talk with the spring expert today. Two springs can have the same size and same spring rate and one will perform well in a head and the other will destroy itself. It's a matter of resonance, he said. All springs have natural resonance frequencies. When they are operating in a resonance frequency they store energy and additional inputs at that frequency can amplify the resonance to the point of destruction. Think of a wineglass shattering when exposed to a tone of the right pitch.

The MX5 head, he said, is notorious as a dirty head in terms of range and strengths of resonance frequencies produced in it. He knows 5 or 6 instances of MX5 springs breaking as their first harmonic matches natural frequencies within the head, independent of spring rate. Springs for MX5s need to be tuned and tested until they are known to be safe for these heads. This may involve varying wire diameters, coil numbers and tempering while maintaining the same broad parameters of free length, rate, etc. It's not just a simple matter of getting right size and rate.

He thinks my failures are indicative of harmonic failure. I never will know whether or not they were tuned for an BP. It's very likely both Woz and the spring man are right. There's a resonance problem exacerbated by inappropriate cam profile, or vice versa.

I'll be going for the belts and braces solution: known springs (choice of Eibachs, Supertechs or Performance Springs) with a matched cam/lifter solution, whichever Woz and the spring man agree is best. If I have to go back to using bloody HLAs again then I'll just stencil a sign of the cross on the cam cover first.


What your spring man says about resonance and spring breakage is 100% correct. There has to be alot of thought go into design, not just spring rate. I am unaware of the MX5 engine being any worse than other engines of similar design, but it is possible. This is also one of the reasons I don't like unusual camshaft specifications, and I have seen alot of people try and "reinvent the wheel" so to speak when it comes cams for these engines. Whilst I'm all for developement on new and improved profiles for high performance applications the fact is that this configuration of engine has been around for 40+years, and for most people a tried and proven camshaft profile is all that will ever be required unless you have the time and money for developement work, testing and tuning.

Cheers
Woz
BP DOHC Mk1 Escort race car. Big Valve head, Cosworth Cams, Spool Rods, Nissan Pistons
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manga_blue
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby manga_blue » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:16 pm

project.r.racing wrote:Maruha F cam dont have the same BCD as stock.
Bingo! You're right. F-cam BCDs are 2.34/1.74mm smaller IN/EX. That explains a lot about the inlet side HLA failures I was having when I was using them. The oil grooves of the HLAs were too far above the oil feed holes. I can fix that.
’95 NA8

manga_blue
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby manga_blue » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:56 am

The answer in the end turned out to be Performance Springs. Thanks to tbro for the contact.

Proudly made in Queensland and proven in the local racing community. Half the price of Eibachs and a third the price of Supertechs. Contact Allen Waye: http://www.performancesprings.com.au/contact.html
’95 NA8

sailaholic
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby sailaholic » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:59 am

Good to know, thanks for updating.

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project.r.racing
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Re: Where to buy valve springs

Postby project.r.racing » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:52 am

so in the end, was it crap quality springs or crap valvetrain setup that was the issue?


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