Track Roll bar options

angusis2fast4u · Postby **angusis2fast4u** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:02 pm

This is going to seem like such a noob question but what do people do for rollbar's in Australia? I had a MX5+ Torx box roll bar in my last mx5 but this time I want something more aggressive, I have an NB with a glass soft-top but that will come out when I put the roll bar. It also needs to have support for harness'.

I've been looking at the Blackbird Fabworx GT3 4 point Roll bar and the Hard Dog, Hardcore M2 roll bars but even they don't advise shipping to Australia!

So apart from the Brown davies, any of the mx5+ roll bars, what is available in Australia? What do you people who track MX5's go to without going half cage/full cage?

Dweezle · Postby **Dweezle** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:07 pm

http://www.agi-precision.com.au/

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Mon May 18, 2015 10:01 pm

The BD one on mine isn't wide enough to properly protect my shoulders or tall enough to properly protect my head. Nor does it make any attempt to connect the front of the car any better to the rear. It does (just) clear the soft top though and is so far low key enough to apparently be acceptable to the local constabulary.

Mine's a daily driver though so those are the compromises you make.

If you want something to do a proper job the last pic in the post above is probs the way to go (as long as you're wearing a helmet!). But driving on the road with it especially with the roof down is likely to create a lot of unwanted attention.

angusis2fast4u · Postby **angusis2fast4u** » Mon May 18, 2015 10:14 pm

I completely forgot about AGI! That this is exactly what I want! thank you Dweezle

davekmoore wrote:The BD one on mine isn't wide enough to properly protect my shoulders or tall enough to properly protect my head. Nor does it make any attempt to connect the front of the car any better to the rear. It does (just) clear the soft top though and is so far low key enough to apparently be acceptable to the local constabulary.

Mine's a daily driver though so those are the compromises you make.

If you want something to do a proper job the last pic in the post above is probs the way to go (as long as you're wearing a helmet!). But driving on the road with it especially with the roof down is likely to create a lot of unwanted attention.

Mine's a street car too but i'm starting to believe that i'd rather get a fine for something which could save my life than "playing it safe" and possibly not walking away from a crash. plus, after 2 years of driving modified cars on my P-plates,(illegaly and stupidly low mx5 and a R32 skyline) I have not once been fined or harassed by police. also if a cop pulled me over saying a safety device was illegal i'm pretty sure you could convince them that making safety devices illegal is stupid and get out of it, unless you get highway police, i've heard there a different bunch of "people"

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Mon May 18, 2015 10:24 pm

... and so the compromises go on and on:

Using a full cage on the road with a standard seatbelt might kill you if your head contacts the cage even in a low speed impact. Adding a helmet would help but will attract attention and won't add to the open top driving experience. Adding a harness would be better again for safety but then you'd need a HANS device to avoid breaking your neck in a sudden stop, apparently even a slowly as 30kmph.

angusis2fast4u · Postby **angusis2fast4u** » Mon May 18, 2015 10:32 pm

davekmoore wrote:... and so the compromises go on and on:

Using a full cage on the road with a standard seatbelt might kill you if your head contacts the cage even in a low speed impact. Adding a helmet would help but will attract attention and won't add to the open top driving experience. Adding a harness would be better again for safety but then you'd need a HANS device to avoid breaking your neck in a sudden stop, apparently even a slowly as 30kmph.

i'm talking about roll bars man.. not cages, I know why cages are illegal also think of the person who hits you, their car will be significantly more bent. I plan to run a Harness and a seatbelt. Seatbelt for street, harness for track but there both there all the time for when I want need them.

Even half cage's are controversial, like should having door bars be illegal? ( I know they are but it seems for little risk they'd ad a bit of safety.. Unlike hitting your head on a bar)

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Mon May 18, 2015 11:16 pm

Gotcha.

My BD is staying in by the way. From next week I'm back to only driving 5 minutes to work again so the race seat will probably also always stay in. I'll be installing an NA seatbelt stalk in the trans tunnel so I can use the standard seatbelt on the road and not have to buckle up the harness.

All cars have bars in the doors nowadays so a properly designed and installed internal doorbar should be legal. Mind you the state of my back would mean I'd have to open the roof to get in the car if they were installed in my car. Such a shame I came to having a track car so late in life!

angusis2fast4u · Postby **angusis2fast4u** » Mon May 18, 2015 11:30 pm

davekmoore wrote:Gotcha.

My BD is staying in by the way. From next week I'm back to only driving 5 minutes to work again so the race seat will probably also always stay in. I'll be installing an NA seatbelt stalk in the trans tunnel so I can use the standard seatbelt on the road and not have to buckle up the harness.

All cars have bars in the doors nowadays so a properly designed and installed internal doorbar should be legal. Mind you the state of my back would mean I'd have to open the roof to get in the car if they were installed in my car. Such a shame I came to having a track car so late in life!

Yeah a roll bar and a racing seat are the best 2 mods i've ever done to my mx5's, I'd never go back to a stock seat. Yeah door bars aren't practical at all for a car on the street as getting in and out would be way too difficult with a roof on, even for younger people like me there just isn't enough room in the door frame to allow for one. anyways thanks for the info tonight guys, one more item added to the to-purchase lis

chrons_rotary · Postby **chrons_rotary** » Mon May 18, 2015 11:30 pm

+1 for the AGI rollbar.
I bought one about 2 months after i bought my MX5.
Recommended things to do before installing the rollbar, due to having to remove it to get to them:
-Replace fuel pump
-Replace any frayed seat belts

angusis2fast4u · Postby **angusis2fast4u** » Mon May 18, 2015 11:34 pm

chrons_rotary wrote:+1 for the AGI rollbar.
I bought one about 2 months after i bought my MX5.
Recommended things to do before installing the rollbar, due to having to remove it to get to them:
-Replace fuel pump
-Replace any frayed seat belts

Would this problem still exist if all the carpet is stripped out? I am stripping it out when I install it

chrons_rotary · Postby **chrons_rotary** » Tue May 19, 2015 12:01 am

angusis2fast4u wrote:
chrons_rotary wrote:+1 for the AGI rollbar.
I bought one about 2 months after i bought my MX5.
Recommended things to do before installing the rollbar, due to having to remove it to get to them:
-Replace fuel pump
-Replace any frayed seat belts

Would this problem still exist if all the carpet is stripped out? I am stripping it out when I install it

No, the problem is the bottom bar that connects the 2 rear legs (see pic in earlier post) is over the fuel pump cover, and while you can still kind of get to it, you cannot remove it with the bar still in place.
New aftermarket pumps are fairly cheap @ ~$100, and relatively easy to replace.

With the seatbelt, the opening to remove it is where each of the main legs are situated.

MattR · Postby **MattR** » Tue May 19, 2015 11:06 am

angusis2fast4u wrote:This is going to seem like such a noob question but what do people do for rollbar's in Australia? I had a MX5+ Torx box roll bar in my last mx5 but this time I want something more aggressive, I have an NB with a glass soft-top but that will come out when I put the roll bar. It also needs to have support for harness'.

I've been looking at the Blackbird Fabworx GT3 4 point Roll bar and the Hard Dog, Hardcore M2 roll bars but even they don't advise shipping to Australia!

So apart from the Brown davies, any of the mx5+ roll bars, what is available in Australia? What do you people who track MX5's go to without going half cage/full cage?

A few questions to start with to help choose what bar will suit best.

First, what track work are you planing on doing? Will it be club days, sprints, time attack or drift? Looking at door to door at all?

What organisation will run them, if you are only looking at QR and Lakeside then AASA, looking further afield, say Morgan Park Super Sprint series then CAMS.

The roll bar will have to meet the specs of the sanctioning body you will run under. For door to door, you can use a roll bar, but cage is better.

In any case, get a bar that meets CAMS specs, so that will limit you to Australian manufacturers to make life easy for you.

Also you said you hade a torque box Automotive plus bar and you want something "more aggressive"???? Do you mean more bar work in the structure????

All the good bars have about the same amount of bar work in them and all look similar and will provide the same level of protection and rigidity to the shell. If you want to add real rigidity then you need to get a full cage made that ties into the suspension points and other select areas of the shell.

You basically have a choice of the following for your roll bar:
Automotive Plus - Brisbane
Brown Davis - Melbourne
AGI - Sydney
Bond - Sydney

Or visit some of the other fabricators that do roll cages around Brisbane for a custom bar.

And if you are getting a harness, get a 5 or 6 point harness, only use it with a proper race seat and unless you are going to use a HANS device every time you use a harness get a 3" wide hraness.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Tue May 19, 2015 11:45 am

Getting a full cage in a road registered car is very difficult. If looking at this you will need to find a shell that has already got a modplate for a full cage.

The American · Postby **The American** » Tue May 19, 2015 1:22 pm

If you've got an Mx5+ bar, there's not much to be gained by switching to and AGI bar. The AGI bar is a pain to fit, but is well made. The Mx5+ bar is easily mod plated in QLD, the AGI, not so much (is my understanding).

madjak · Postby **madjak** » Tue May 19, 2015 1:44 pm

Magpie wrote:Getting a full cage in a road registered car is very difficult. If looking at this you will need to find a shell that has already got a modplate for a full cage.

In WA it's basically impossible unless you have bolt in side intrusion bars. Even then you need full engineering. You can rally reg the car however the rules now require a full targa cage which requires double crosses in the main hoop and roof as well as gussets. This makes for a very expensive and heavy cage, probably more than I need. The car will also have to be CAMS logged booked. I hear the rally registrations are being phased out shortly as well with a new system to come in.

Currently there is a massive void between a road car (half cage & stock seatbelt) to a race car (full cage & harness) where I don't feel comfortable driving an MX5 in speed events without full roll over protection and better side impact. Current road laws mean I can't have a licenced car and be safe at the race track which is unfortunate as I think many people would skimp on the safety to stay registered.

I've made the decision that safety is more important than maintaining road registration so I'm getting a custom cage made for my car now. It will be a full weld in CAMS spec cage with a single cross on the main hoop and roof.

There is a common misconception with road licensing and cages / other mods. You can have rally rego, or even road rego with a cage... but if you have an accident in the car and whatever you've done to it causes damage to yourself, another vehicle or person, you are liable. Rally rego will cover the car to and from events only, and even then it's limited. You certainly can't daily drive the car, and I wouldn't with a full cage anyway.