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Hi, what is the general consenus with the frame rails now that all your knuckles and scratches have healed.
Thanks steve

They get a thumbs up from me.
Been a week since the killer installation, and I'm definately glad i got them. I got the rails and the middle bit.
'Scuttle shake' is reduced signifigantly. The car is a little flatter and more composed under hard cornering. It just feels more solid all-round.
Ground clearance on my NA8 is not compromised, infact the middle bit serves as a protective shield for my hi-flow cat and custom exhaust.
I can only assume my next mods, a roll bar and sway bars will only be further enhanced by the added stiffness the brace provides.
The only downside I can see is that future work done to things like your gear box or exhaust will be more of a hassle as the middle part of the brace needs to be removed in order to gain access to these bits.
That said, there's only 4 bolts that secure the middle bit on, so it's not a huge drama. Although, those 4 bolts are a major pain in the ass.

It also depends on whether or not you'll be doing a lot of the work yourself that requires getting in under the actual 'butterfly' bit. If it's a mechanic, they'll have the car on a hoist and should be able to get the bolts off easy enough.

As for me, I'm about the same. The biggest seller is the increased ride comfort. The car doesn't bounce around as independently as it used to, so it means there's less likelihood of just one wheel dropping into a pot hole (for example) on it's own. Now the entire thing moves with it, and as counter intuitive as it seems, it makes the ride more comfortable.

marcusus wrote: The car doesn't bounce around as independently as it used to, so it means there's less likelihood of just one wheel dropping into a pot hole (for example) on it's own. Now the entire thing moves with it, and as counter intuitive as it seems, it makes the ride more comfortable.

hmmm i thought the whole idea of having 4 wheel independant suspension was that if , for example, one of the wheels dropped into a pot hole , it would not upset the balance of the other 3 wheels???

"comfort" and "performance" do not often go hand in hand so i'm surprised at marcus's comment as i thought the fm braces were a "performance" mod.


any other comments on this ?

My rationale behind goes something like this:

Usually with our cars, if one wheel drops into a pot hole, you really feel it because the car flexes down the middle and that one wheel really drops into the hole, along with some other bits that aren't suspension related..

However, with the brace, there's no flexing down the middle. What (I think) happens is that although that one wheel drops, the suspension et al drops with it. But the rest of the car is now held together by the brace, so there's no drop in the other parts of the car.

That seems to work logically in my head... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If I could draw it out I would...

ok so what you seem to be describing is that the car is now more independant / rigid at each corner... that makes more sense to me. your initial description gave me the opposite impression.

Fatty wrote:ok so what you seem to be describing is that the car is now more independant / rigid at each corner... that makes more sense to me. your initial description gave me the opposite impression.

That's probably what I was going for. I was just kinda hoping the first description would do the trick, but I guess not

marcusus wrote:My rationale behind goes something like this:

Usually with our cars, if one wheel drops into a pot hole, you really feel it because the car flexes down the middle and that one wheel really drops into the hole, along with some other bits that aren't suspension related..

However, with the brace, there's no flexing down the middle. What (I think) happens is that although that one wheel drops, the suspension et al drops with it. But the rest of the car is now held together by the brace, so there's no drop in the other parts of the car.

That seems to work logically in my head... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If I could draw it out I would...

Confused the hell out of me....

In my experience, on the NA, the brace made a HUGE difference to rigidity. The car feels so much less flimsy than it did before, and thats just with the rails only. My suspension is shot, basically minimal bump travel and not much damping, which results in crashing and banging and the car being shaken half to death, obviously, shocks are next on my list. The car used to flex soooo much, hitting a bump felt like the car was going to snap in half. The problem was worse when I got a huge flatspot on the tyres, the windscreen pillars, no exaggeration, would displace about an inch either way when doing highway speeds.
When I added the brace, the car no longer shakes like it used to when you hit a bump, its like a unit now, and for some strange reason, the suspension feels softer. The handling improved too.

If you go to the group buy thread in this thread, there are additional comments, if you haven't already read them.

Sasso wrote:and for some strange reason, the suspension feels softer. The handling improved too.

That's what my post was trying to explain. When I next see you, ask me to draw it out... it'll make more sense with a diagram.

I think what you might be trying to describe, or rather, should be, is that when you hit a bump or hole, rather than the chassis flexing up or down at that corner, its staying straight and solid and letting the suspension compress or rebound, as it is supposed to. So the car stays still but the wheel moves, rather than the car moving.

Sasso wrote:I think what you might be trying to describe, or rather, should be, is that when you hit a bump or hole, rather than the chassis flexing up or down at that corner, its staying straight and solid and letting the suspension compress or rebound, as it is supposed to. So the car stays still but the wheel moves, rather than the car moving.

Yeah, that's the one. I realised that was what I was trying to describe late yesterday afternoon, but just didn't bother coming on here to point it out

I figured someone else would do it eventually

Did anybody measure the frame rails before installing them? I'm thinking of getting a pair made, and any info on their size and fitting would be good.
Thanks.

Steve.

Fabio wrote:Did anybody measure the frame rails before installing them? I'm thinking of getting a pair made, and any info on their size and fitting would be good.
Thanks.

Steve.

Maybe it's just me but I'd prefer another group buy than rip off a good product.

Mokesta wrote:

Fabio wrote:Did anybody measure the frame rails before installing them? I'm thinking of getting a pair made, and any info on their size and fitting would be good.
Thanks.

Steve.

Maybe it's just me but I'd prefer another group buy than rip off a good product.

i'd second that..

I don’t think it is stealing their Intellectual property, they weren’t even the first to do this sort of thing. So I don’t see a problem with making them myself. The way I see it, they want $200 for 2 pieces of flat plate with a couple of bends and expensive triangles (instead of cheap round holes) cut into it. Add to that, transport from America, and it doesn’t become hard for me to make significant financial savings, if I make it myself.

Steve.