mx5cartalk.com

Part 1

Hi All,

Simone from Mania tells me that there are 5 butterfly braces in circulation out there at the moment so feel free to add your reviews to this thread if you are a recipient. Thought it would be better to start a new one so that others can find our views in the future.

As the instigator of this I thought I would take the opportunity to kick things off since mine has been installed by Mania today.

Of course the car required 5hrs of driving to \"run it in\" . The \"run in\" course consisted of galston gourge (of course!) the old pacific highway and the old northern road after the pacific highway that goes to the wiseman ferry crossing (where I turned around and came back via pacific highway then the F3 and pacific highway to artarmon).

Firstly what was it like to fit?

Luckily I sub contracted this task out to our friends at Mania. I hope that my fellow purchasers are getting someone to do it for them as well as the task was reasonably involved.

Step 1 was removing the seats, the sill guards and the carpet. The reason for this is so that when the holes are drilled through the floor the drill quite obviously doesn't go through the carpet. Secondly when the bolts go through the floor it from inside the car it would be pretty hard to put these in place with all that stuff in the way

Step 2 - the car is hoisted for the frame rail fit. I can't imagine what this would be like trying to do this at home on even my dads $500 floor jack. A right PITA I reckon (though I'm sure someone will try).

The frame rail re-inforcement braces fit over the existing chassis rails. I have read on miata.net that on some cars this part can be a problem as sometimes the chassis rails can get quite banged up over the years and out of shape. Mine where not too bad so the rails fitted reasonably nicley on the chassis rails only requiring the assistance of a medium sized rubber mallet rather than a BFH - a close relation of the BFG gun for you doom fans out there : ). Some of you with NA's and a few more years on the road under your belts might not be so lucky I guess. The frame rails themselves are required to go under the brake and fuel lines, requiring the brackets to be detached and the lines pulled down a little (a note for NB8B and later owners - you can buy the frame rails on their own, FM suggest their could be some benefit for you from these but you already have a X brace under the car)

Step 3. The car is lowered and an assistant / stunt double is required to climb inside the car. The car is raised again and the relevant holes drilled. The assistant puts the bolts through the floor so that the nuts can be attached under the car. Relevant nuts and bolts are tightened but not overly so as that is left for the end.

Step 4 the car stays raised and the three pieces of the cross brace are attached to the frame. You need to be careful to make sure the fuel and brake lines are sitting in the right place at this point. the two side pieces of the X brace are attached to the frame rails again not overly tightened. The centre section around the exhaust system is attached. Once the how to fit it issues were sorted out the tolerances of each of the pieces in relation to each other was quite good. Only requiring the assistance of a LFH (Daniels phrase, not mine ) to push the centre section into the right position

Step 5, everything is tightened up - some of the bolts are in a little tricky position (the instructions from FM appologise).

Step 6. The metal end of the brackets for the brake and fuel lines (where the bolt used to go through) are turned up to stop them from rubbing on something.

Step 7 the carpet and seats go back in

Step 8 Test Drive

So what does the seat of the pants say about it.

Firstly lets put in in context

Quite a few years ago I had an 86 model supra sports roof (where the centre section of the roof unbolted from the car and went in the boot). When the roof was out on that thing over any bump it felt like every wheel was out of alignment

I think i was creaming myself when saw the brace under your car this morning. I was the guy drooling over your shiny brace when the car was up on the hoist at around 11AM

mmmmmm how much were these things?

it was all there a minute ago.

Part 2

- ie horrible . It was at that moment I realised what scuttle shake was and how much I hated it.

After that I had an SW20 MR2 with its targa roof. I was always impressed with that cars rigidity roof in or roof out, but then it did have two really serious X braces at both ends as standard. When I got in my MX5 the first time I was actually quite dissapointed it did not have the MR's rigidity (but undertsood why of course). Still I saw the potential and bought it.

Mr Q was kind enough to give me a lift in his 93 clubman to the A/C mechanic to pick up my car one day. Great little car , I could see that yes body wise it did move around a fair bit more than mine but NA's (at least mr Q's year at least) don't deserve their bad rap on this front I think. Nowhere near supra territory!.

Supension mods to mine - It has late model biltsteins and eibachs, previously it had RS spec factory springs and frankly the ride was shite, the eibachs I have found work a lot better with the bilsteins (must be a german thing )

So stop waffling already tell me what it's like?

Someone on Miata.net said that it felt like there was about 7 strut braces attached to the bottom of the car. I think this is quite accurate. As soon as I drove out of Manias driveway it felt like things were quite a bit more \"together\". The gorge is fairly smooth and I was a little hampered by traffic but the car definitely felt more composed in the bends there.

On the old road it is obvioulsy quite a bit bumpier. Again It felt quite a lot more composed. I don't know the specific locations by name of all the really nasty bumps but I'm sure you know where they are. Even though I new they were coming I kept the boot in at the appropriate times just to see what would happen. The cars nastiness (the front twists, the rear twists, you get thrown in a couple of directions - you know the feeling) has definitely been tamed a lot - not completely gone but MUCH more under control. I imagine this is largely what an NB8B / C feels like - but they don't have the rails so maybe mine is a little better in some ways dunno.

The wisemans run is not bad for twisty corners but pretty ordinary for corrugations. Last time I went out there I thought to myself \"don't know if I will do this again\" mainly because it felt like I needed a kidney belt! Today it went from pretty crap to pretty good. There are quite a few bridges on the road (wooden and concrete) and I used to dread them but today they were fine really. Grip during mid corner bumps quite a lot better. Another tick.

On the freeway the 65mph shimmy I have was nicely reduced. I think I may have lost some weight recently off a rear wheel so no doubt this could be reduced further.

At normal speeds over suburban roads it felt a LOT nicer. Day to day this will be absolutley the best thing about it.

Lastly where I live (flat) I have a garage for the mx on the lower level and driveway leading down that banks off to the left. Before when I had the roof up and drove around the bank I could hear the vinyl in the roof stretch as the cars chassis was stressed diagonally and I went round the banking in the drive. This afternoon the roof was up when I came back - no noise from the roof stretching so I guess that means no diagonal twist

Overall I'm a happy man. Some people have said after their install \"it feels like it has a metal roof\" Don't know if I would go that far but the body's movement is definitely a lot better controlled now. Essentially I think I have achieved an 8B/C's level of rigidity possibly plus a bit more longitudanlly due to the rails (hard to say as I haven't been in one).

I await the thoughts of out other installers to see what they think. For me, it was definintely worth it. If you wan't one I'm afraid its another group buy for you as Mania have sold their shipment.

I have a pic or two on my phone but don't know how they came out so I may post later.

Cheers

Steve

StanTheMan wrote:it was all there a minute ago.

Thank god for the back button on a browser , now up there in all its glory. Yes I think we have met on a run or two Stan , I'll send you a PM on your question.

Cheers

Steve

I get the feeling it was you I saw on the gorge around maybe 3pm or so, following a white NA. Thought you guys were going to/from Mania, but didn't know it was because of the FM butterfly braces. If I had, I would've specifically gone to Mania today to check it all out.

Perhaps, if the opportunity arises, I'll have to give your car a burl and compare it to my completely stock 8A and see what the difference is. But it definitely sounds like a good option (when the car's paid off anyway).

marcusus wrote:I get the feeling it was you I saw on the gorge around maybe 3pm or so, following a white NA. Thought you guys were going to/from Mania, but didn't know it was because of the FM butterfly braces. If I had, I would've specifically gone to Mania today to check it all out.

Perhaps, if the opportunity arises, I'll have to give your car a burl and compare it to my completely stock 8A and see what the difference is. But it definitely sounds like a good option (when the car's paid off anyway).

Nup that was some other lair as I was there about 1. I guess like most I will be at the club run next sunday.

Steve

Right... oh well... I made mention of it in the spotted thread, so maybe we'll find out who it is, and whether they have a FM brace installed and were working it in as well

As for the club run, I should become a member first. It also would help if I was in Sydney that weekend, which I won't be, so oh well.