Roll Over Protection discussion

[hks_kansei]

Fair enough.

But having a rollbar won't stop that either.

[deviant]

... after some shipping ressearch, the Hard dog hardcore bars seem to be only $800-900 shipped to your door internationally ...

That really does seem like the safest option at the moment. Has anyone here installed one?

Looking at the regulations for NSW Supersprints:
"All convertible vehicles must be must be fitted with either a hard top or a CAMS approved roll cage or both."
It seem to be ok to use a hardtop with a non-CAMS approved roll bar, or will scrutineering still give you a hard time?

You could fit and use a Hard Dog bar in a non race, non log booked car and it would likely work out for you if you have an accident.

You would not be able to log book the car or get a sticker on the cage with all of their bars though as they dont all meet the design criteria...for example the 'Hard Core' bar does not have diagonals that meet within 100mm of where the main hoop and rear stays join.

The X braced one would possibly meet the regulations but anybody buying one to put in a log booked car or planning on getting a CAMS sticker for the bar MUST confirm with Hard Dog the material diameter and thickness. The specs are in the CAMS manual.

I kind think that for $900 your local roll cage bloke could probably build one for that?

[Guran]

Looking at the regulations for NSW Supersprints:
"All convertible vehicles must be fitted with either a hard top or a CAMS approved roll cage or both."
It seem to be ok to use a hardtop with a non-CAMS approved roll bar, or will scrutineering still give you a hard time?

The requirement you've quoted only applies to Type 6 (Time Attack) cars. Road registered MX-5s in Type 1 (Unmodified Production Cars) or Type 2 (Modified Road Registered Cars) do NOT require a roll cage, roll bar or a hard-top. Roll cages are only required for unregistered cars that require a logbook. CAMS approval for a rollbar is only required for logbooked cars and in this case, the 50mm head clearance requirement is definitely enforced.

Style bars are fine although they offer almost no rollover protection. BD rollbars are usually fine too, although the scrutineers sometimes do the rounds and check for the 50mm head clearance requirement. Acceptance of BD rollbars with less than the 50mm head clearance is at the discretion of the chief scrutineer. Nearly all of the NA and NB drivers who compete at NSW Supersprints have BD rollbars, and some are about six foot tall. If a road registered MX-5 driver gets taken to task by a scrutineer, they should ask to have it checked by the chief scrutineer. If they still get grief, calmly offer to make your car "safer" by removing the rollbar and running with no rollover protection at all ... then see what he has to say.

[Zcootz]

I'm trying to decide between the BD bar and MX+ bar and something I've noticed with BD bar is that the soft top doesn't seem to sit completely flat when down. Is this the same with the MX+ bar ?

Also anyone sprinting with the twin hoop MX+ bar ? Looking at the footage of the Cobra roll I've go to wonder if the single hoop bar is much safer than the twin hoop designs.

Cheers,

Mark

[hks_kansei]

I'm trying to decide between the BD bar and MX+ bar and something I've noticed with BD bar is that the soft top doesn't seem to sit completely flat when down.

Actually, it does sit flat.

It just requires the top to bunch up a bit around the rear legs.

The only time mine doesn't want to sit completely flat is on very cold days when the vinyl is a bit stiff. After about 5 mins though it settles and sits flat.

Warm days it drops flat straight away.



the MX5+ bar's rear legs don't reach as far back as the BD, so they don't require the softtop to be bunched around them. (from memory anyway)

[de Bounce]

I'm trying to decide between the BD bar and MX+ bar and something I've noticed with BD bar is that the soft top doesn't seem to sit completely flat when down. Is this the same with the MX+ bar ?
Also anyone sprinting with the twin hoop MX+ bar ? Looking at the footage of the Cobra roll I've go to wonder if the single hoop bar is much safer than the twin hoop designs.
Cheers,
Mark

The legs on the MX5+ bar reach further back than the BD Bar and are spread further apart!
The BD legs start higher on the hoop creating more angle which the soft top need to form around when lowered.

I have the MX5+ bar fitted to mine based on the info from HERE and would happily buy another if given the choice again.

[Bizi]

TVS (ch44) Sydney - right now.. Brown Davis (David Brown) and how they do race cages. On a GTHO though.
All looks VERY old school. Extra triangulation bits on this one.

[Tony]

WRT NSW CAMS Supersprint regs and following advice from Mike Hicks a while ago (and unless things have changed recently which would be unlikely) you are OK to run with no bar in Type 1 and Type 2 as Brian has mentioned.

However... if you do have a roll bar in Type 1 or Type 2 cars it must be CAMS approved. No non-approved bars are permissible, hence the number of BD bars used. Not sure where style bars fit in; never really concerned me.

[Zcootz]

So does this mean mx+ bars are going to have a problem in NSW?

[Mr Morlock]

odd conclusion to come to- Tony's post might need re reading

[Muzdaman]

I'm trying to decide between the BD bar and MX+ bar and something I've noticed with BD bar is that the soft top doesn't seem to sit completely flat when down. Is this the same with the MX+ bar ?

Also anyone sprinting with the twin hoop MX+ bar ? Looking at the footage of the Cobra roll I've go to wonder if the single hoop bar is much safer than the twin hoop designs.

Cheers,

Mark

The single hoop MX5+ bar is higher than the twin hoop if thats a concern.

[Zcootz]

Thanks Muzdaman, I was wondering about that as well. I prefer the look of the twin hoop but it seemed a bit low, you've just confirmed it for me. Thanks

[greenMachine]

If CAMS specs/certification is required, forget single hoop and twin hoop designs, it needs to be a single full width bar, with a diagonal and bracing. Check the CAMS tech regs for ROPS.

It probably has something to with letting someone run with a bar that does not meet their requirements, ever heard of liability ?

If anyone has a non-certified bar which meets the specs (again, see the CAMS handbook) they should check out the 'self-certify' route.



BTW badgers, that comment is not only pretty dumb, it's also probably actionable by both CAMS and David Brown. I suggest you edit it.

[manga_blue]

What GM said. Hoop designs only permitted for single seaters. The good thing CAMS has done now is consolidate all roll cage regs into one schedule.

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/10_gen ... 2012-1.pdf

[Deni.07]

thinking of getting the hard dog one that goes through the boot but have been told it may be illegal to cut the parcel tray in qld? is this true. will
it pass mod plate and all other rules.

http://www.gomiata.com/harcorhar.html