BD vs Plus???

[Mr nanotech]

Guran commented .."valid in terms of distance between head and hardpoints, which can be addressed with suitable padding". I still find this an odd proposition in that padding is only going to mitigate injury. Anyone fancy being hit with a baseball bat wrapped in suitable padding?

How is this different from hitting your head against the B-pillar of a solid roof car in a crash?

[NitroDann]

Yeah. I think what bryan (guran) is alluding to, and what some dont understand, is that its G forces to the skull, or a split open skull that kills you.

1 inch of padding is 50 times more padding than your hair provides, and as acceleration is distance per second per second. Increasing the distace 50 fold decreases the G forces 50 fold.
This is why its ok with padding.

Dann

[Guran]

... attention needs to be paid to seat height in order to meet the 50mm head clearance requirement for logbooked open cars. Road registered cars don't have this requirement.

Hmmm... I agree, but unfortunately it seems as though Kerry has a different opinion on this. According to his logic it's safer to have no roll bar, than one where there is less than 50mm vertical clearance between top of helmet and top of roll bar.

Maybe I should clarify. The 50mm head clearance applies to all cars in CAMS events. However it is at the discretion of the event scrutineers to allow entry for those that don't (quite) meet the 50mm requirement. Personally speaking (my views do not represent the MX-5 Club), a sensible scrutineer would see that a road registered NA or NB is a safer proposition if it's fitted with a rollbar even if the 50mm minimum isn't quite met. It's much safer than NO rollbar - Type 1 and Type 2 at State Superprints do not require rollover protection in open cars.

[Steampunk]

here we go again....
Guys, have you ever given any thought that a "roll" bar does more than protect you in an actual roll?
Imagine, if you will, an unattentive driver in a speeding 4WD barrelling down behind you whilst you are slowing or stopped at a set of lights... do I need to go on?

I bought a roll-bar for my old car NOT so much for fear of rolling my car, but for fear of bigger, heavier, and higher vehicles wanting to get a little too friendly.

And as for the analogy of getting hit with a baseball bat;
Yes, I would rather be hit with a BLUNT baseball bat than speared by various vehicle overhangs and edges, and "road-rash".
Bones and other autonomic self-preservation aspects of your anatomy is actually quite amazing in relation to blunt-force injuries. Not much your body can do to minimise initial stabbing trauma though.

But yeah I agree Guran, why don't we whip this equine over, and over, and over again

Nano, seriously, just do your own research and decide upon its merits. There is very little chance of getting a truly objective answer here as no one who is independent have tested the two bars "properly". You'll only get for and against from people who have the respective bars and no experience with the other, ie your friend with the BD.
If he had an MX-5Plus bar instead, do you think he'll still be stating the merits of the BD? Get what I mean?

[Mr nanotech]

I didn't expect this to end the way it did... Though I should have known better

All I wanted to really know was the differences between the two since they're really well made and basically the same price give or take a hundred. I guess I'm sticking the the Plus bar.
Thanks for the help everyone. Though why is it even when someone posts up a choice between two roll bars, there are always people who feel the need to go on and on about how having no roll bar at all is safer... Sometimes I wish they'd turn their car over and find out themselves.

But yes, you've been really helpful! I'll give Plus a call next week and find out exactly why the bar isn't cams approved (out of curiosity more than anything).

[orx626]

I'll give Plus a call next week and find out exactly why the bar isn't cams approved (out of curiosity more than anything).

Nano, they're open tomorrow as well. Give Richard a call on (07) 3863 5858 to have all your questions answered.

Some of them may even be answered here http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=36793

Cheers,
Danny

[Mr nanotech]

I'll give Plus a call next week and find out exactly why the bar isn't cams approved (out of curiosity more than anything).

Nano, they're open tomorrow as well. Give Richard a call on (07) 3863 5858 to have all your questions answered.

Cheers,
Danny

Thanks buddy!
I'll give 'em a call tomorrow.
On a side note, I didn't know the Renesis NC belonged to someone on this forum! I saw your build on another site AGES back! Amazing car man, I can't wait to read what has been done to it since last time I saw it months ago. Love the build!

[Locutus]

why is it even when someone posts up a choice between two roll bars, there are always people who feel the need to go on and on about how having no roll bar at all is safer... Sometimes I wish they'd turn their car over and find out themselves.

hear hear.

my preference would be to get the mx5plus bar because it appears to me that the torque box design would also significantly increase side impact protection in a T-bone situation.

[PaulF]

Thanks for the help everyone. Though why is it even when someone posts up a choice between two roll bars, there are always people who feel the need to go on and on about how having no roll bar at all is safer... Sometimes I wish they'd turn their car over and find out themselves.

Actually, this raised an interesting question in my head. If you want me to start a new thread then I'll do that. Does anyone on this forum have experience (first- or second-hand) with a car that has actually rolled while using one of these bars? If so, how did it (and the driver) fare?

[NitroDann]

If it helps, one of the big american roll bar companies that make bolt ins with basically the exact same designs as we see here has many photos of cars rolled with and without their cage in.

Mind you its pretty easy to only show pictures that favour the bar, but there are some where the car is reduced to just about nothing, the window frame is torn to shreds and the bar is just sitting there like nothing happened.

Dann

[Old Dude]

No experience, but I have some photo's

crash_s20003.jpg

crash_s20006.jpg

gomiata_2047_62125307.jpg

[deviant]

More evidence of the protection offered by these type of bars:

http://www.bethania-garage.com/testimonials.htm

Also see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMmjaaSQP08

The after photos..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/benellett/4323393345/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/benellett/4323393531/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/benellett/4324128254/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/benellett/4324128498/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/benellett/4323392891/

Avoid avoid avoid like the plague this JDM hektik y0 crap. I have posted this a number of times across a lot of forums but I will not stop until people stop buying this sh*t.

[Hjt]

But its nice and blue!! Seriously it looks like the wind would blow it over.

In reference to bars saving people, revlimiter with his na6 "sharka" from clubroadtser was rear ended at a set of lights, he swears his harddog hardcore roll bar saved his life, yes he had it wrapped and yes it still smacked his head hard.. but he lived to tell the tail unlike some unfortunate people. Because of his praise for the bar, which he sent back to the manufacturer they sent him a brand new.replacement bar and just charged the shipping fee!

Check his thread out for more info

[NitroDann]

See you all at the track you top heavy overweight safe bastards

Seriously though, what do they weigh? Ive held em before but never put one on a set of scales.

Dann

[Jeo]

My Torque Box is 21kg.