Do Ya or Don't ya ????

[tbro]

After seeing the startline shunt today in the Taxi race, I started to wonder as to how many people here wear the FULL GEAR when racing.

Its been commented to me that " you must be farking mad to wear all that crap in this heat" at a few AASA meets.

When you actually take the time to check who does wear all the gear (Multi layer suit, fireproof underwear,socks, Bal and shoes and gloves, plus I wear a cotton "t" under the long johns.

Being too fussy, nah! I bought the bloody stuff from Brett (Pennisula sports cars) with the instructions that I want the right gear and thats what was supplied.
Chances of ever needing it, WGAF, its insurance!!!!

So, who does and who don't and if not why not????????

Terry

[greenMachine]

That was big hit Ruptured fuel cell and burning fuel everywhere . I wonder how his hands got burnt, whether it was burning petrol on the door getting into the gloves. I guess his vizor was open too, or maybe the fire got up inside the front of his helmet. Hopefully CAMS might publish some 'lessons learned', beyond 'don't get hit up the bum on the grid'!

Interesting to review the thread here viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46436 in the light of this incident, and your Qs.

I wear the outerwear (suit, boots, gloves), plus a balaclava and socks, plus cotton underwear/t-shirt. Now I really will keep the vizor down too ... and I will have proper underwear next time out too.



PS I reckon scrutineering of clothing will crank up a notch or three for the next few events too ...

[greenMachine]

For those who want to watch it again ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFG05xRM8Qw

[lightyear]

That is spectacular - in a bad way. So now they are going to locate the tank in the same spot as the mx5 tank. I have a suit, but only wear it when it is cold.

[manga_blue]

Yh, so I was browsing racewear last night. I bet I wasn't the only one. It's not that hard to imagine being hit like that during a track day.

I used to wear a single layer suit with full merino wool underset, thick wool socks, flame resistant balaclava and gloves, low cut driving shoes. But I've been getting lazy and often just do the outer suit, socks and gloves.

Now all the other gear will be going back on again and I need to research wool vs nomex and whether the single layer suit is enough with the undercover.

[tinsfci]

I need to research wool vs nomex.

Add CarbonX to the list just to make the decision harder! http://www.jegs.com has a good selection and postage is reasonable if you are ordering a few items.

[JBT]

Hopefully CAMS might publish some 'lessons learned', beyond 'don't get hit up the bum on the grid'!

Maybe a back to basics approach of "watch where you're going and don't crash into the car in front of you".

[greenMachine]

... It's not that hard to imagine being hit like that during a track day.

Not the track days I attend!! Never seen a grid start on a track day, or supersprints, but maybe some clubs do it. Unless you meant 'race day'?

I have seen cars individually waved off the grid on a track day, but not the whole grid at once.

The two essentials to this incident were a stopped car, and a fast moving and unsighted car. That combination doesn't happen often, but it it only has to happen to you/me once ...

[greenMachine]

Hopefully CAMS might publish some 'lessons learned', beyond 'don't get hit up the bum on the grid'!

Maybe a back to basics approach of "watch where you're going and don't crash into the car in front of you".

I think we can all learn this ourselves, without anyone elses help. I was looking for something more than that when I said 'beyond' ...

Now this is just speculation, but this shunt makes me think of fireproof bibs on helmets, stitching on gloves, fireproof lining inside helmets, fuel tank location if moved from stock, a more visible 'stopped car on grid' sign (did you see the size of that sign the start line official put out - at least I assume that was what it was) ...

Does anyone know if either car's onboard extinguishers worked, and where were the nozzles pointed? I know these are not meant to douse a fire from from a burst tank full of fuel, but what role did/could they play in a fire of this nature? Interestingly, this fire was very similar to the one described in the GSM article.

I hope that CAMS/AVESCO/someone will have a look at this, and see what worked and what didn't. Just because no-one was killed/seriously hurt, doesn't mean we can be complacent.

[mr2 spyder]

well making me think. I had my race suit sitting in the car on the last track day, just wore jeans and a shirt/jumper. I will be wearing it from now on. Didnt want to look like a wannabe race driver that couldnt drive but safety is more important than looks?
PS: I still have 3 ex INDY race suits for sale . 3 layer nomex.

[manga_blue]

... It's not that hard to imagine being hit like that during a track day.

Not the track days I attend!! Never seen a grid start on a track day, or supersprints, but maybe some clubs do it. Unless you meant 'race day'?

No, I really did mean 'track day', I was picturing being slammed after a spin somewhere out on the circuit. I just came back from a couple of days at Wakefield SOTS. There were plenty of big horsepower cars there in pretty inexperienced hands.

[JBT]

Hopefully CAMS might publish some 'lessons learned', beyond 'don't get hit up the bum on the grid'!

Maybe a back to basics approach of "watch where you're going and don't crash into the car in front of you".

I think we can all learn this ourselves, without anyone elses help. I was looking for something more than that when I said 'beyond' ...

I was being a little facetious. However, the basic premise of "don't drive into the car in front of you on the grid" seems to have been missed and there was a crash with almost deadly consequences. Grid starts are very hazardous for the reason that a car ahead may snuff it or get away very slowly. Come to think of it, it's also applicable in day to day driving.

Maybe there should be some review of fuel cell location, protection, self sealing properties and inclusion of an automatic firex in that location.

[greenMachine]

... It's not that hard to imagine being hit like that during a track day.

Not the track days I attend!! Never seen a grid start on a track day, or supersprints, but maybe some clubs do it. Unless you meant 'race day'?

No, I really did mean 'track day', I was picturing being slammed after a spin somewhere out on the circuit. I just came back from a couple of days at Wakefield SOTS. There were plenty of big horsepower cars there in pretty inexperienced hands.

Yes, I know what you mean. I would not grace these with the description 'track days', that implies organisation to me, and no one can accuse SOTS as being over organised.

Some days SOTS can be quite OK, but I have also been there when they are feral, and just downright dangerous to someone who only wants to put in quick clean laps.

Take your number plates off, and try to get them to allow you to run with the race cars, I have done that in the past with the green car. My experience is that if they can see you are serious, they will look after you. Failing that, ask for your money back and go home if there are too many idiots there - it is just not worth the risk of tangling with them, and it is marginal whether anything useful can be gained if you are aborting fast laps to keep clear of the clowns.

[PeterB]

Proves to me the importance of the two most overlooked items :

1). Balaclava - the worst injury in a fire is to breath in flames - so a balaclava covering mouth and nose may give those vital few seconds. A full face helmet with closed visor will help even more.

2). fire proof gloves - in a fire you are going to want to get out fast and having fingers still attached to your hands will help in that regard.

The news report indicated injuries to hands, nose and leg.
The report I saw showed the rear firewall being breached in the accident, letting the burning fuel in.
The drivers seat melted into the driving suit, but did not penetrate the triple layers

However, fire seems rare. My biggest fear is being T-boned by a quick car and all of the really nasty accidents I am aware of in club level motorsport have resulted from a T-bone in the drivers door, usually because the car came back onto the track after a spin.

[deviant]

well making me think. I had my race suit sitting in the car on the last track day, just wore jeans and a shirt/jumper. I will be wearing it from now on. Didnt want to look like a wannabe race driver that couldnt drive but safety is more important than looks?
PS: I still have 3 ex INDY race suits for sale . 3 layer nomex.

Don't worry about how you look. I have seen people in all the gear at everything from autokhana level up to trackdays, sprints etc but I have never once heard any comments about that person. Most people are to busy organising themselves or just enjoying themselves to worry about what other people are up to.

Proves to me the importance of the two most overlooked items :

1). Balaclava - the worst injury in a fire is to breath in flames - so a balaclava covering mouth and nose may give those vital few seconds. A full face helmet with closed visor will help even more.

2). fire proof gloves - in a fire you are going to want to get out fast and having fingers still attached to your hands will help in that regard.

The news report indicated injuries to hands, nose and leg.
The report I saw showed the rear firewall being breached in the accident, letting the burning fuel in.
The drivers seat melted into the driving suit, but did not penetrate the triple layers

However, fire seems rare. My biggest fear is being T-boned by a quick car and all of the really nasty accidents I am aware of in club level motorsport have resulted from a T-bone in the drivers door, usually because the car came back onto the track after a spin.

A balaclava will not let you breathe. There is to much heat (you will burn your airways if you try) and the fire consumes all of the available oxygen anyway.

Yes fire is fortunately very rare but when it happens it seems to happen badly and can be compounded by slow or inefficient response from rescue crews. On a full race day there are ambulances and fire crews stationed around the track....but on a track day? Heck even on a club sprint day the only help is going to come from either other drivers stopping for you or the people in race control being able to see you are in trouble and sending someone out.


I think that there has to be a point where we have to say "okay this is getting serious" and start to look at the safety stuff more closely. As much as we want to keep things cheap and club level with a few mods and some sticky tyres you can be running faster than some fully prepped race cars....certainly at speeds where a collision with a wall or another car would be very serious without a roll cage, seat and correctly fitted / worn harness.

I urge everyone to have a look at this: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articl ... ting-fire/

And remember that if it can go wrong at professional level motorsport it can certainly go wrong at our amateur level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78SIektVOR4&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oLVxSwh ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FK_1wcINvg

I had been thinking about this safety stuff for a while but lately it has become more of a priority. I have got a Sparco Sprint in the car but I am changing this to something else and I am looking for a full cage and I will invest in some decent clothing to.