Recomend driver training for track??

[wun911]

I want to learn how to drive faster around a track.

Anyone done driver training?

Any recomendations?

How much did it cost? And do you think it was worth it?

What did you gain from it (in seconds)?

[bensale]

I'm interested in the replys to this too. I'm looking at doing a few courses in May, although probebly more skidpan, control, how to react in a emergency type things.

I've heard DECA have quite a few good courses, although not really track based. http://www.deca.com.au/Courses.aspx?Cat ... %20-%20Car

A google search also revealed these guys http://www.driverdynamics.com.au/

And have a look over this page, plenty of linkshttp://www.hotfrog.com.au/Products/Driver-Training

[Matty]

AROCA do a few training days, as do the BMW Club. Mostly at Winton.

MX-5 Club day at DECA will be good too.

Otherwise, read \"Going Faster\", talk to the usual suspects at track days and practice practice practice.

[Sasso]

Gran Turismo (3 or 4) on playstation... No I'm serious. Get the silver or gold licences and do the difficult races and endurances, that will teach you the lines and concentration/consistency and a bit about dynamics, although you just won't literally feel the g-force, but you don't have to. And its cheap.

Read books, Drive to Win by Carroll Smith is a good book I'm reading atm. Highly recommend it.

Make sure you get a good understanding on the theory behind driving, knowing what to do is very important, learn about the dynamics of the car. Car control comes with practice, but there's no point practicing the wrong thing. You will find you keep hitting walls in your lap times, where no matter how many more laps you do you can't go faster, thats where you have to do the learning off the track, go back and try the new line or technique. And once you learn why the car is behaving a certain way you can start to adjust the car's suspension settings.

A quicker way to learn how fast your car should be is to let an instructor drive it at 100%, then try to match their lap time. They will also tell you if the car is misbehaving and what it could be.
Once you've reached their time or you just can't reach it perhaps get one to ride passenger and give you some more tips. Then practice that.
Also realise that not all instructors are perfect, and that many of the cones that some clubs put out on the track are completely wrong.


Oh and there is no point at all asking how much faster someone went after driver training, everyone is different.


Also remember car setup has ALOT to do with lap times, so it may not necessarily be your driving that makes you hit the lap time wall in some cases.

Good luck. Smoothness is the key.

[Hellmun]

#1 :- Practice, everytime you make a lap you get more comfortable and confident with the track. Once you feel comfy you can start experimenting one corner at a time.

#2 :- Get a lap in with someone faster..preferably in your car. When Phil (Charlie Brown) took me for a lap in my car, I gained about...1-2s in a single track day. I just asked the organiser during lunch if one of the veterans could take me for a run and Phil was standing in the right spot at the right time

#3 :- Don't change a lot of things on your car at a time....ever.... car tuning is crazily complicated and it is soooo easy to go backwards. The standard mx5 is surprisingly well balanced...slightly understeery but you can oversteer is very easily....great learning platform.

Have fun and keep doing #1 until you brick wall..then consider some driving training. People in the Vic club seem really nice so I'm sure someone will hop in with you and help you out. Be a lot cheaper.

Otherwise I've analysed a few different video's and read most of Race car Vehicle dynamics by Millikin and Millikin. If you aren't great with physics though...I'd skip it. Understanding how a car works really does help. Just don't expect a quantum leap in car tuning...more I learn the more complicated I realize it becomes.

For reference it's taken me 12 months to go from 1:23:05 with boiled brakes and melted tyres at wakefield. Down to 1:12:96 with a decently modified car. Give it some time and most important of all keep having fun.

[Alex]

I would say just get someone who has experience to ride along with you, I got David from mania for a session and it was great
but then it was my first time at the track and it's alot more different to road driving than I thought it would be
also depends on how good you are before hitting the track
The main things I was told were
\"straighten out alot earlier and let the car move over to the outside\"
\"Accelerate\" (normally in a corner)
\"Why are you braking\" (normally on approach to a corner)

have you been to a track day yet?? If not then do that first, it'll give you a starting point

[cshaks]

Hi Wun.
I was lucky enough on Sunday to have Rob( I am ashamed to say I can't remember his surname) take me out on my familiarization laps.
He was a fantastic instructor, and really showed me a lot with regard to how to get the most out of my car on the Winton track.
From what I saw of you on the track, (and we were in the same group), you were doing well, but the lines that you were taking into the corners where somewhat different to those that others were taking. I also noticed that you seemed to have a fair bit of understeer, which wouldn't have helped your times.
I found that I learned the most on the track by trying to keep up with some of the quicker guys, and watching what lines they took and where they braked.


I have also spent a fair bit of time playing Gran Turismo over the years.................

I will qualify all the previous statements by saying that I too was at my first track day on Sunday. ( so take me with a grain of salt!)

Cheers
Chris

[Slugoid]

As mentioned, go to DECA, do some driver training, either track oriented stuff or basic defensive driving training, and then head out to track. Winton is a good track to start on and less scary than Phillip Island . Let someone drive your car on track or have someone more experienced sit next to your to give you some pointers. After that, just practice, practice and practice.

I went to Winton at least 5 times, 4 times with semi-slicks. First time there with semi's I got 1:49.8. Took me 3 more times to get my current PB of 1:45.8, which still isn't good enough! (Mr. Sam Gumina did a 1.44.33 with his NB8 in modified class ). But yeah, shaving those lousy 4 seconds was bloody hard work, which involved me whoring rides in much faster cars just to see what they can do and how they did it.

[fattima]

Wun,

I did a John Bowe advanced course at Winton last year (great birthday gift it was!). The course was really good and gave you a heap of track time, but they are not cheap around $400 I think. I reckon you could get most of what you need from guys in the club. As Hellmun mentions get one of the quick guys to take you around, it teaches you heaps.
With car setup I keep a log book of changes I make to my cars so I know what and worked and what didn't.

[wun911]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Thanks to the driver pictured below (forgot your name sorry) who took me on the practice lap.

[manga_blue]

The MX5 Vic Club runs a training day at DECA in Shepparton from time to time. This is great for handling basics at low speed.

After that there are racecraft training days run jointly between MX5Vic and Vic AROCA (Alfa Romeo Owners Club). I've done this and then later on the John Bowe HP Driving course. I reckon the club's racecraft day is a much better way to go. It's half the price and you get about twice the instruction time, twice the track time and much better instruction for MX5s. Plus you get to establish some mentoring from the club's experienced drivers for the future.

The last racecraft day was at Winton, the next is Winton or Broadford but date is still tba as far as I know.

[Matty]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Thanks to the driver pictured below (forgot your name sorry) who took me on the practice lap.

And the two of you managed to stay on the track?

[manga_blue]

Just my 2c worth about training though.

On a track like Winton then the average beginner with a standard car could expect to make these gains in laptimes over the course of 2 or 3 years:

Tyres: 2-3secs, $ 1,000
Suspension,diff and brakes: 2-3 secs, $ 3,000
Major engine mods: 2-3 secs, $5-10,000
Driving skill: 12-15 secs, $500

[Fatty]

i'm really looking forward to the next club racecraft training day. i've been to 5 track days now with the club but due to circumstances beyond my control (ie visiting 2 new tracks when it was a msca run day) i've only ever had 1 chance for someone to sit in with me on a familiarisation session (with craig h at winton, which was brilliant thanks craig) . i've had a lot of good advice trackside and around the dinner table along the way by the club regulars but a good stint in the car with someone else is what i really need, i think.

[Samselectrics]

I went to Winton at least 5 times, 4 times with semi-slicks. First time there with semi's I got 1:49.8. Took me 3 more times to get my current PB of 1:45.8, which still isn't good enough! (Mr. Sam Gumina did a 1.44.33 with his NB8 in modified class ).

1:45.8 in an NA6 is awesome. I think Matty only got about there in his NA6 so it's a good time. I'm at 44.1 but the 1.8 has more torque and the Nb has a better flowing head so it'd be a tall ask to get those times in an NA6.

I'm horrible at determining who'd who on the Forum. Did you drive with us last weekend? I'm guessing not as you would have come second in class if you did.