Heel toe vs heel toe double de clutch

[marcusus]

Ahhh but you don't have to gate jump with heel and toe because its quick enough.

???
If you're changing from 4th to 2nd is that not gate jumping? So why don't you need to gate jump if you heel toe?

My you are tenacious. Why are you so into ddc other than because it sounds complicated and is a bit smoother, its not a racing technique and you're adamant its the best way.

Why waste a perfectly good argument?

[irwin83r]

whats your fastest time at wakefield marcs?

[marcusus]

whats your fastest time at wakefield marcs?

I got 1:21:29 I think as my best lap at the club day recently.

Surely you've got more to say on the subject than just asking me what my best time was

[irwin83r]

do you want that time to get lower?

[marcusus]

do you want that time to get lower?

Is that a hint as to which side you're on?

[Sasso]

Marcus having seen your demonstration of double declutching, you do do it fairly quickly and you just might get away with it at wakefield but you wouldn't at eastern creek.
However I do think your accelerator pedal is too high and possibly hindering your braking performance.

I am not a fan of gate jumping and think you should go through the gears sequentially, because that's how they were designed, to stay in the right rev range.

So I still suggest to learn how to heel toe the short way and use it on the track.

Good luck.

[irwin83r]

do you want that time to get lower?

Is that a hint as to which side you're on?

well... i always kinda say if they are faster than you then you should probably listen to them and well i dont know of anyone but truck drivers that double clutch... and they certainly arnt racing.. nore are they exactly newish hightech gearboxs

[marcusus]

I am not a fan of gate jumping and think you should go through the gears sequentially, because that's how they were designed, to stay in the right rev range.

Hence double de clutching coming in handy

So I still suggest to learn how to heel toe the short way and use it on the track.

I'll keep practicing it anyway, just for the sake of it. As mentioned, it never hurt to have another trick under the belt. If I find it more useful on the track I'll use it. Of course that requires another track day for that to happen, but in the meantime, it's back to fully sick driving on the streets

[Sasso]

I am not a fan of gate jumping and think you should go through the gears sequentially, because that's how they were designed, to stay in the right rev range.

Hence double de clutching coming in handy

So I still suggest to learn how to heel toe the short way and use it on the track.

I'll keep practicing it anyway, just for the sake of it. As mentioned, it never hurt to have another trick under the belt. If I find it more useful on the track I'll use it. Of course that requires another track day for that to happen, but in the meantime, it's back to fully sick driving on the streets

You just need a better exhaust so you can actually hear it.

[marcusus]

well... i always kinda say if they are faster than you then you should probably listen to them and well i dont know of anyone but truck drivers that double clutch... and they certainly arnt racing.. nore are they exactly newish hightech gearboxs

Good theory. So what do you do then? Gerard's way I take it?

You just need a better exhaust so you can actually hear it.

It's on the cards after the FM brace is done and dusted. I think I should finish all the suspension works before I start doing power upgrades again.

[irwin83r]

yeah i just plain heel toe.. feels alot quicker and smoother than anyother method ive tried and the engine helps you brake alot more

[marcusus]

the engine helps you brake alot more

That's probably true. Oh well. Will just have to try and test it for myself on the track next time.

[Sasso]

well... i always kinda say if they are faster than you then you should probably listen to them and well i dont know of anyone but truck drivers that double clutch... and they certainly arnt racing.. nore are they exactly newish hightech gearboxs

Good theory. So what do you do then? Gerard's way I take it?

You just need a better exhaust so you can actually hear it.

It's on the cards after the FM brace is done and dusted. I think I should finish all the suspension works before I start doing power upgrades again.

Good idea, get sways and FM brace. And then [James May immitating clarkson] POWARRRR. [/James May immitating clarkson]

Yeh Marcus listen to Andrew, he's really quick.


The engine braking however is very small compared to the brakes.

[drifter]

DDC is a waste of time on all modern gearboxes with syncro's. Particularly pointless in a low powered mx5. No matter how fast you can do it, it takes longer than a simple heal and toe rev-match. Since you are using the clutch twice, expect your slave cylinder and clutch hydraulic system to wear out faster.

If DDC works better for you then it's to do with your car/gearbox as the DDC driving technique is less efficient then the basic heal and toe rev-match. The sooner you can change gears the more time you have to concentrate on actually driving the car. Look at F1 and WRC cars they don’t even use the traditional clutch.

[pcmx5]

Interesting thread!!

Probably been said a million times in amongst all this is the need to spend as little time as possible in the situation where there is no drive/braking taking place ie. where that car is unbalanced.

Therfore the less time between gear changes the better and heel/toe means you can brake and change gear at the same time and therefore avoid the \"nothing\" zone in between.

Doing all this on dirt ampilifies the situation and is why many rally drivers take it even further and left foot brake so that they are constantly in a balance between braking/accelerating(ie when braking they still have some acceleration until the car settles and do not take their foot completely off the accelerator, really just vary the pressure)and avoid the \"nothing\" zone.

Must admit I sometimes DDC but really only for the fun, not because I need too!

Peter