Lap time log files - Vic tracks.

[ianoz]

Hi - looking for help to see why I'm so slow Have only done a handful of track days, and have a long way to go to get anywhere near the times getting put down by other MX5's.

I've fitted a QStarz BT-Q1000ex (the red matchbox) to see where I'm dropping time, and that's helped, but i'm only comparing bad laps with worse..

Would really appreciate anyone who would be kind enough to share log files from Victorian tracks that would suit the QStarz QRacing program, ideally for a near stock NA6 - to see where I'm backing off too soon/too much, and where to concentrate to make the biggest gains in corner speed.. (eg I know back straight of Sandown = major wimp out time... ).

Failing that - any format and I can reverse engineer a chart. I've done that for some YouTube's that have speeds displayed over the video.

I can access log files from my brother - but as he runs a Westfield it's kind of pointless. the speed difference is just too great.


Thanks
Ian
(NA6, coilovers, bars, otherwise stock)

[Magpie]

Whilst the speed difference maybe too great you can still look at the line taken as well as the apex speed. I was kindly provided some files for Eastern Creek (for a much faster car) before I drove it, this allowed me to at least look at the turn in points and apex information. However, nothing prepared me for the skip of the heart when going through turn 1 at speed for the first time then hurtling down to Turn 2 and taking it as a single apex corner I have lots more seconds to get from EC.

The advice I have been given by many on this forum, 'get some seat time and stop playing with the car' rings very true and it is only because of seat time (and professional advice) that I have seen my times drop.

For example I managed to be within 0.5 secs of my PB on the QR Clubman track despite the car only being reved up to 6,000 (it redines at 8,200), using 5/6 gear, non R Spec tyres (AD08's) as opposed to FZ201's. Despite the changes in the car, having to re learn brake points I still managed good consistent times (much to my surprise). It was the ability to brake later/less that allowed me to carry more corner speed than I have ever done in the past and if not for the underpowered car and its issues as well as advice from Warren Luff (MR Tuning coach) I would not have learnt this lesson.

In addition when driving a car with limited horsepower any mistake will result in time lost with very limited opportunity to recover it. Therefore practice, practice, practice but make sure it is good technique being practiced. Pick a corner or part of the track and work on getting it right once this has been achieved move to the next part get it right then string the parts together.

Don't get me wrong I love data and looking at it but you eventually you have to do something with it and translate it into real world actions (drive the car). If your are serious about getting times down look at getting some professional help/advice/coaching, this will pay dividends in the long run. In Queensland we have a few good providers of track day coaching, not sure what you have available in your area.

[Dan]

Sorry I can't help out with giving you any data but some advice I'd give is to spend time looking at the lines you are using rather than just looking at corner speed as you can usually be faster by just using a better line rather than trying to grow bigger balls.

To fix up your lines it's handy to have some reference points on the track as it will significantly improve your consistency. A good way of getting reference points is to watch videos of the fast guys identifying their braking, turn in and apex points with references on or near the track, write it down on a track map and then watch the same video's until you get to the point where identifying the reference points is in your head so you can just go on the track and easily think 'brake here, turn in here, apex here, track out here' without consuming too much brain capacity.

The consistency you'll gain will be huge and if you already have videos of yourself then you can probably work out where your lines are off the most and which corners you can prioritise improving.

Here's an example of a map which is one I came up with before I ever went out to SMSP South by watching youtube videos of Phil Ashton and Daniel Deckers primarily:

[ianoz]

Thanks guys. Excellent points.

The diagram with ripple strip marker references is a great idea Dan - going to try to do something similar. Did read the 'tips' posts by Matty (great guides btw!), and with watching youtubes it's a good start. One good point on the data logs is that it draws each of your lines on a track image to compare them, and exactly where you're braking each time etc. Nowhere to hide... Got my Sandown PB down by about 10 sec so far to 1:46's - so a long way to go yet. Should be sub 1:40 from what I can see around, and I know know I'm dropping a lot of time at the end of the back straight -but that wall looks awfully close

Agree Mapgie - having no power you definitely can't afford to stuff a corner! Though that is my whole intent of the NA6 - force me to get my driving technique right rather than relying on horsepower. That can come later . The GPS logging is trying to ensure I'm not just going out and practicing bad habits. Will look into the track day coaching aspect - anyone have any suggestions in Melbourne?

[1600Dave]

I don't have experience with the "QRacing" software, but I would assume it would have a way to import / export using "standard" formats. You may find someone with, say, RaceChrono or VBox that could export their data, which you could then import into your software.

Dataloggers really are a great way to track your progress, I've used RaceChrono for quite a few years now.

[Trackphotos]

Got any onboard footage to show? I can't help with data, but onboard will get input from a lot more people.

If I had to suggest one single thing as the most important factor for times, it would be that the race line is everything. Learn the correct line, and do whatever it takes to stick on it. If that means braking earlier for a tight corner, taking it slower so that you get a better line exiting onto a high speed section, then that's what you do. Overdriving is just as bad as underdriving.

[Magpie]

Dan sent me a similar map for Eastern Creek GP and I had the diagram transferred (via ID card software) onto an ID card. The questions I got at work were priceless when I asked if a track map could be put onto an ID card. I almost ended up attaching it to my steering wheel when I went to drive EC...

I'll see if I can load some video/data of slow in fast out to highlight what Trackphotos said.

[beavis]

Hmm, you can see all my laptimes and speeds for most of the VIC tracks here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/BEAVISHSV/featured?&ab_channel=BEAVISHSV

If you want racechrono data, i can help with that, just shoot me a PM.

[ianoz]

I've got some in-car video - just need to work out how to upload it somewhere. Then you can cringe at the horror of missed apexes, over braking, and having time to read a book while the poor old thing winds up on the straights...

Thanks Beavis - i'll PM you.

With the data I'll work out a way to compare it - even if it means old school handwriting on printed circuit maps

[Dan]

With the data I'll work out a way to compare it - even if it means old school handwriting on printed circuit maps

Unfortunately the other forum members haven't updated it since late 2013 when it was made but I found the spreadsheet I attached helpful early on to compare my straight and corner speeds against other drivers to figure out where I most needed to improve.

The spreadsheet is for Wakefield park but you could rename the fields and punch in the numbers for your local track to do a comparison if you wanted to, it would require a small knowledge of excel to do though.

Here's the original thread viewtopic.php?f=68&t=60770

[ianoz]

Thanks Dan - something like that is really useful for benchmarking and flagging the areas for improvement - exactly what I was hoping to be able to do. Just need some times from others to add to it
I spend a lot of time in excel, so no worries manipulating sheets. Had started something similar from youtube vid's - but this format is better to read.


Uploaded a couple of laps to youtube - first uploads so I think it worked OK.. both are at Sandown and approx 1:46.5. Audio is shot - can't turn off the mic on the camera and it just picks up the windnoise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb9jmCgKQRE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brPBZGwd1Yo - I know I stuff up T3/T4, but was concentrating on the BMW on my tail at the time...


Any comments appreciated

[Trackphotos]

Firstly, you are wasting a huge amount of time just by running with the roof down. At Lakeside the difference between roof down and roof up is more than 7 tenths, in a 65 second lap for a stock-powered NB. I expect the lower torque in an NA would be at least as badly affected, maybe even more. The amount of full throttle acceleration at Sandown would easily be enough to affect your times there. Next time you go out, run roof down and then roof up the next session, and see what the difference is.

T1 you look a little hesitant in the first video, you don't track all the way out and there are no corners immediately after requiring you to keep left. Looks like maybe you could turn in a little earlier or with a little more speed, to use all the track and minimise the amount of speed you wash off with steering. Less steering = less speed wash. Looks much better in the second video. On the final corner onto the straight, that right-left complex seems to me like it would be most efficient to apex late on the right hander to keep yourself as far to the right as possible, so that when you turn left onto the straight you've got the straightest possible run and can get on the power as early as possible. Sacrifice the right-turn speed for left-turn exit speed, over the length of the straight I'm quite sure the lost speed in the right turn will be more than made up for by the long straight.

Other than that, it's kinda hard to tell without clear audio how quickly you get back on the throttle, whether you're on it immediately after the apex, early or late etc. Only other comment would be that it's a good habit to keep both hands on the wheel until you are about to shift. Resting on the gear stick on straights won't make you any faster, but it could have bad results if you have the misfortune to hit fluid on the track, have a tyre blowout etc.

[ianoz]

Agree totally on keeping the hands on the wheel. Didn't realise I was doing it until watching the video! bad habit from driving manual in peak hour traffic all the time I think..

I have run soft-top-up vs top-down for the comparison, and it's definitely a lot quicker top-up. On comparison runs at Sandown I make it about 1.8+ seconds per lap. The speed increase from entry-to-max on the straights is about 7-8kmh more with the top up.

But I know I've got that up my sleeve - there's another 5 seconds I need to find above that I run top down for two reasons really
- the Jaycar camera can't cope with the contrast, you can see inside the car perfectly but outside is just a white blur. And the audio is still garbage.
- i haven't had a soft top before and really enjoy having it down!!!
When I get a decent camera I'll probably go back to top up. I also have a hardtop sitting in the garage gathering dust - i hear that they are more aero than a soft top.

What i think so far is;
T1 - turn in earlier & less brake - use more of the ripple on exit.
T4 - i've heard to turn in earlier and run wide on exit, and to turn in later and square it up. not sure which is faster.
T6,7 - keep... foot... down.... (eyes wide shut)
T10(? final right hander) - yes need to hug the right hand side more to line up T11.

either that or a large bottle of nitrous in the boot?

[toppertee]

Ian,

Sadly, you have been missing the elephant in the room.

Your slow cause your not banging lots of hot women. Example.....Take a look at F1...... All the greats, lots of hot women. (it's why mark webber was never number #1)

I found, trying to follow a faster car / driver around the track can, help. Try and see who's quick in your group and try and follow him/her....

But, IMHO.....theres no substitute for testlcals and talent.....