mx5cartalk.com

Hi. Just joined up as I'm toying with the idea of an MX-5 as a second car. Got a question which people seem to find hard to answer sensibly. I don't know a real lot about MX-5's. Pretty much just google review reading and what's on the Mazda site.

Couple of easy questions first:
1. I presume being low you're more likely to get dazzled by other car headlights? That must just be one of the prices you pay for not joining the SUV craze.

2. For the more seasoned - how's the low height for getting in and out? Do you end up doing a Jeremy Clarkson and looking like a right knob?

3. Given that my normal car is manual and I like having an auto for when I want a lazy drive - is the auto version still fun, or is it really not worth bothering with? Ideally I would have an auto normal car and manual fun car, but I have the normal car very well sorted. I've almost always had manuals, but recently got a cheap, oldish luxury car which is great to drive when I just want to waft and be lazy in comfort.

I do know a fair bit about cars though having always fixed, fiddled and serviced my own since school (well over 30 years). I do everything but wheel alignments, exhaust welding and can't be stuffed doing body work as I can now afford to pay someone else to do a better job than me.

So the question (and no, I'm not trolling. I really want to know) - For the top model you can go over $50k (using Mazda site prices). Even entry level is $38k. I don't get it? Isn't it just a 1.5/2 litre Mazda put together a bit differently? Doesn't seem to be anything stunning in the spec's or kit they come with (apart from the electric roof, so ok lets say $5k for that). How's it different to a $23k Mazda 3 as far as cost to make or quality? Only things I could find were LSD and TPMS. I get that it's a different type of car. Is it higher spec? Ok, it's rear wheel drive, maybe that adds a bit. It's small, so actual raw materials would be similar to a 3 I would think. Made in Japan. Are the more mundane Mazda models made in cheaper countries (some, yes)? Could you argue the quality is better in the MX-5? Are the bits better because it's a sports car? Lighter weight and better engineered? Mazda make very few claims of 'special'-ness on the site. Light transmission, first car with that type of steering. Other than that it reads very similar to the 3 page.

Lower volume of sales would add cost per unit, but that much? Why isn't the top model $35k? Entry level a bit more than a base 3 - mid 20's? Is it just a 'mid life crisis' tax? Charging as much as the market will bare? The other thing could be they pretty much have that market segment sewn up (if you consider the MX-5 and 124 as one). Closest thing would be the Toyota 86/Subaru thing.

At least with the Abarth they give you a bit of recognisable fruit – Brembos, Bilsteins, a turbo engine (seems debatable wether that's better) with a rorty exhaust (which can become annoying).

Now I asked that on Whirlpool and pretty much didn't get a sensible answer. So asking owners and presumably car enthusiasts - are there bit's of the Mazda you look at and think 'now that's really well designed', or 'look what they've done to knock a bit of weight off that'?

1: yeah, you get used to just having the interior mirror flipped up most of the time.

2: depends on your flexibility and fitness, I can get in and out of my NB fairly normally, but nowhere near as fluid as when I was 20. My dad in his late 50s has to somewhat climb out a bit.



with regard to the price, it's simple.

Mazda are there to make money, so they price the car at a point taking into account both cost of manufacture, customer's willingness to pay, and how that price affects the impression of quality.

The MX5 is aimed to be Mazda's "premium" vehicle, especially now that the RX8 etc are gone.
If they price it too low they need to sell more to make money, however going too low may give customers the impression of the car being "cheap" and so sales may drop (remember, a 2 seat convertible isn't going to be a volume seller, it's nearly always a desire purchase)

Price too highly it may be seen as bad value, or end up having to compete with other similar cars (BMW, Merc, Porsche)



So yeah, basically Mazda have worked out that at $40k to $50k the car is cheap enough to be achievable by many, without being so cheap that it appears "povvo", and without being so expensive that people may go for a fancy badge like BMW or Mercedes.

1. Lights. No I meant oncoming lights. Would have to be worse the lower you go.

Yes, I think that's all there is to it. Interesting if you look at the list prices on Mazda USA (fruity cars are cheaper there though. I think less tax on them or just cheaper due to higher numbers sold).

Mazda 3 US$18K (A$23k) A$21.5 in Aust (more competitive segment here?)
MX-5 entry US$25K (A$32k) near A$37k in Aust
MX-5 top (RF auto) US$34k (A$43k) A$50k in Aust

Yes, see for me I reckon they're in that 'jeez, if I just spend $10-20k more I can get something really special, not just a Mazda with an engine from a 3!' area. I can understand it for cars like the RX8 which pushed an envelope, but the MX-5 no matter how nice it is to drive, just isn't cutting edge or $50k special enough.

Maybe as a just out of warranty version it would make financial sense to me as I prefer the cheapskate approach to cars and self service - better bang for buck and minimal dealer interaction required.

3. Answer: If you don't have have any disabilities, you want a Manual MX5, it's part of the whole Jinba-Ittai experience (ie. you're "one with the car", when you make slick shifts at the precise time you feel instantly rewarded). A car like an MX5 needs to be dríven aggressively through the "twisty stuff" to fully appreciate it, you want the engine revving freely and feel like you're responsible for how well it's performing.

You'll kick yourself later if you buy an automatic, you're losing a large chunk of what makes an MX5 so much fun to drive.

wfdTamar wrote:1. Lights. No I meant oncoming lights. Would have to be worse the lower you go.

I dont find it any worse for that than any other car that's lower than an SUV, my old MG sedan and my GF's 626 wagon are about the same as my MX when it comes to oncoming lights.
Mainly because oncoming lights are only an issue for a few seconds at most.

wfdTamar wrote:Mazda 3 US$18K (A$23k) A$21.5 in Aust (more competitive segment here?) Very competitive sector, if I recall the segment the Mazda3 is in in Australia's biggest selling segment
MX-5 entry US$25K (A$32k) near A$37k in Aust
MX-5 top (RF auto) US$34k (A$43k) A$50k in Aust

Yes, see for me I reckon they're in that 'jeez, if I just spend $10-20k more I can get something really special, not just a Mazda with an engine from a 3!' area. I can understand it for cars like the RX8 which pushed an envelope, but the MX-5 no matter how nice it is to drive, just isn't cutting edge or $50k special enough..

True, but I don't think that many people look at cars and want to spend $10-20k more for a better model.
$5k maybe, but an extra $10-20k seems a big jump.

Why is the MX-5 the price it is?
If you consider the RRP of the NC3 (2L) was $56k, & the RRP of the ND1 (1.5L) was $32k, the creep that we've seen perhaps becomes more understandable.

I gotta say. If you like manual.....there is no substitute

Ive got a mazda 3 auto. While it is awesome in sports mode....swapping & changing those gears in auto Manual mode is just wrong. I got tired of it real quick. Occasionally sure....

but I cant wait to get back into my manual 5.....whenever that is.

as far as looking like a slob getting out for the over 50's. Depends on your gut & directly proportional to how far it sticks out.

of course that's assuming knee or back injuries from years of sport don't come into the equation

I think 'Sports Cars/Sporty Cars' have always been a rip-off, haven't they?
Just different shaped tin to the 'bread 'n butter' models but twice the cost.
The Toyota 86 is probably the only sensibly priced sporty car I can think of.
If I was 25 again and wanted a new car that's what I would be driving.
Most of the folks on here own cars they bought 'Used'. There's a reason for that.

I bet a lot of the price is reflected by warranty issues that a mazda 3 would never be affected by.

Dann

The price is what the market will bear.

I have a manual NC but the six speed auto in the NC and ND is excellent and very satisfying to use. I wouldn't be concerned about auto vs manual for those models.

Rocky wrote:I think 'Sports Cars/Sporty Cars' have always been a rip-off, haven't they?
Just different shaped tin to the 'bread 'n butter' models but twice the cost.
The Toyota 86 is probably the only sensibly priced sporty car I can think of.
If I was 25 again and wanted a new car that's what I would be driving.
Most of the folks on here own cars they bought 'Used'. There's a reason for that.

One of the sales women at my workplace used to have an 86. Apparently with the Boxer engine it's a tight fit in the engine bay, so much so that when comes time to do a spark plug change or timing chain change (hopefully shouldn't need to with a chain), it's an engine out job. Never a cheap or fun thing, especially when one is paying someone else to do it.

Though I like where the alternator is on the Subaru Boxer engines.

Surely not engine out for spark plugs in the 86? Mind you having done a V6 Camry rear bank of plugs I am amazed how much of a PITA Toyota (and presumably any manufacturer) could make a little thing like that.

Googled, no, not engine out but looks painful still.

Ease of maintenance is definitely high on my list and something that would steer me away from the 124. Surely must be more crammed in its engine bay having a turbo and all the associated hardware?

SuperMazdaKart wrote:timing chain change (hopefully shouldn't need to with a chain)

Don't know about on the 86, but on the 2L Alfa motor top & bottom timing chains still required replacement, as they would start to rattle once worn, but at least as bad as it got was remove the head to replace the bottom timing chain, which is how I spent one xmas.

Reminds me of the garbage MG i owned.

Spark plugs, either front or back, were a job that needed you to remove the intake manifold for.....

Re the Toyota 86 - 5h1tty jobs are 'Dealer jobs' in my book - which is why I won't be changing the fuel filter on the MX5 - that's a job for someone who has a hoist.