How do you heel-and-toe?? noob question

[marcusus]

When I heal toe (or double clutch for that matter) I usually let the clutch out as I'm revving. Does it make a difference if the clutch is in or out?

Meanwhile, I found it pretty easy to heal toe in the MX, but I was doing it on my old KA Ford Laser, so it was just a matter of getting used to pedal positioning.

I found it was quite easy to pick up after I learnt how to double clutch first, which if it hasn't been mentioned already (and I'm too lazy to do more than skim this thread ) involves the same thing, but no braking.

I'm guessing everyone puts their 'toe' on the brake and 'heel' on the throttle? It was a bit awkward when I tried it the other way around...

[Okibi]

YES! toe on brake, heel (or side of foot) on the accelerator.

It doesn't matter so much if your foot slips off or misses the accelerator but you must have full control of the brake.

[marcusus]

Heh. That's why I stayed with doing it that way. Found much better brake control with the toe on the brake. If I went heel, I'd jerk it round like no tomorrow.

Anyone got an answer for me re letting the clutch out when you rev the engine?

[Rocky]

I don't have any trouble heel & toeing in my size 16s, and in fact when it rains, I just jump in with my gum boots on over my shoes, & thats no problem either (although I do have a bit of trouble getting my feet out of the car again)

[MX5-SP]

YES! toe on brake, heel (or side of foot) on the accelerator.

It doesn't matter so much if your foot slips off or misses the accelerator but you must have full control of the brake.

Yes, that's the way I was taught (over 35 years ago)...using the toe on the brake helps you "feather" it if necessary to maintain braking control...and yep, if the heel slips off the accelerator all you get is a bruised ego, or a bigger blast out the pipes. I've tried it the "other way" and it don't work for me...all bumps and dips, and nowhere near as precise as the "proper way".

[marcusus]

Still no answer on letting the clutch out whilst revving the engine?

[Okibi]

No time to bother doing that, it's a blip and change

[marcusus]

Right, well I went and looked it up since no one seemed to know...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch

Looks like the clutch is supposed to be released while it's in neutral, then depressed again after the engine revving is done.

[AJ]

jesus wept

[JBT]

Looks like the clutch is supposed to be released while it's in neutral, then depressed again after the engine revving is done.

You're talking about two different subjects rolled into one.

The heal & toe gear change technique has nothing to do with double declutching. You can do one without the other. You don't need to double declutch a synchromesh transmission.

[MX5-SP]

Looks like the clutch is supposed to be released while it's in neutral, then depressed again after the engine revving is done.

You're talking about two different subjects rolled into one.

The heal & toe gear change technique has nothing to do with double declutching. You can do one without the other. You don't need to double declutch a synchromesh transmission.

I agree with JBT. You can double de-clutch either way. I find T&H + D-D/C enables one to leave braking later when entering a corner.

Having thought about it though, my driving habit is to always D-D/C unless I have misjudged something and really need to change down quickly and that's when things get ugly. And, I only tend to T&H on interesting twisty bits of road, not general driving around town (...although there have been exceptions).

JBT is correct in D-D/Cing is not necessary in syncromesh G/B (that's whay they were invented I think)...but it always sounds better and is much more fun to do...and these days it's the only exercise I get...!

[MX5-SP]

...(oops...double posted)

[Okibi]

\"You almost had me? You never had me - you never had your car... Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on the intake! You almost had me?\"

[marcusus]

Yeah, I'm not disputing that double clutching is basically unecessary these days. My only point was the proper technique of double clutching & heel toeing.

Meanwhile, I thought a heel toe implied double cluthing? After all, what's the point if you don't double clutch in the heel toe? Revving the engine if the clutch is still in would do nothing in that case? Your car certainly doesn't go any faster. And since the clutch hasn't been released, the revving doesn't actually match anything engine speed wise?

[MX5-SP]

Yeah, I'm not disputing that double clutching is basically unecessary these days. My only point was the proper technique of double clutching & heel toeing.

Meanwhile, I thought a heel toe implied double cluthing? After all, what's the point if you don't double clutch in the heel toe? Revving the engine if the clutch is still in would do nothing in that case? Your car certainly doesn't go any faster. And since the clutch hasn't been released, the revving doesn't actually match anything engine speed wise?

As stated in previous comments... there's no real need to double declutch in an all-syncromesh gear-box. I guess I do it more for effect than any real need, although gear changes do feel a bit smoother than just a straight change down. T&H & D-D-D/Cing allows you to maintain consistant braking when changing down gears, as opposed to having to release the brake to blip the accelerator in just a straight-forward D-D/C (which necessitates having to release the brake and blip the accelerator).

I guess another reason I prefer to do both T&H & D-D/C is that it gives me an extra opportunity to blow some more soot in AJs direction...